Overcoming Heartbreak As A Man | Geoff Duncan #549

Geoff Duncan, a music producer from New Zealand to Nashville, shares his life's melodies and challenges, including a recent divorce and fatherhood. His story emphasises the power of music, personal growth post-divorce, and the strength in vulnerability. Geoff's journey illustrates the importance of diverse perspectives, embracing change, and the healing nature of music, leaving us inspired by his openness and resilience.

INSTAGRAM:
https://resin8music.com/geoff-duncan
https://music.apple.com/us/artist/geoff-duncan/269415508

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:51

Welcome back to the man that Cam Project podcast. We have another brilliant guest. We've been on fire with the incredible men that I've been able to interview and learn over the last couple of weeks, and today is no different. We've got Jeff Duncan. Jeff, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Thank you mate, thank you Loggy.

Speaker 1: 1:10

Dude, it's a pleasure. We got connected through some mutual friends John and Keke Hume maybe six weeks ago or so probably longer actually and here in Nashville and one thing that I'm always drawn to is men like yourself who can really hold what I would consider to be a interesting conversation where we can actually talk about things that are going on in your life, why you're pursuing certain things. For me it's very intriguing and I get very curious, and I remember saying to that night I still like there would be so much, there's so many nuggets that we could get from a conversation that many of our audience could learn and listen to. And you're obviously an extremely talented music producer. You're a Billboard charting producer and for those who don't know what that means, it's a big fucking deal, like the Billboard charts is the biggest charts here in the States. But other than that man, you're someone who's chasing their dreams.

Speaker 1: 2:06

You've moved from New Zealand over here to America as well, and you've been here for a lot longer than I have, obviously. But you're a great father and also a great role model and someone that I've known only for a couple of weeks, but you've already had such a profound impact on my life and I think, just for the audience, the incredible thing about when you get to a point in your life and you can, or one you know who you are and what you stand for and what you want. It makes it very easy to connect really quickly with people and figure out those that you want to spend more time with and those that you probably never want to see again. And, jeff, you're one of those people that I was like. More time I can spend around this bloke, the better, while asking it so welcome.

Speaker 2: 2:45

Oh, that's very kind man. Thanks, dude Mutual. I feel the same way, Loving the morning plungers and running videos, making it inspiring stuff, you know.

Speaker 1: 2:55

Well, I can't wait to get in the morning pledge together. I just saw George literally jumped in.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Oh, legend crushing it.

Speaker 1: 3:05

But Jeff. I'd love if you could give a bit of a background to everyone and then we'll dive into it, just where you're at in life, how you got here, and we'll take it from there.

Speaker 2: 3:17

Love it man. Yeah, well, I mean from New Zealand, been in America in 2012,. So, you know, getting on for 12 years, you know, and that's been a fun adventure with Peaks and Valleys, as all the best stories have you know. And I'm 52, I have two daughters. My oldest is 25 and she lives in Sydney. She works in the fashion industry for Louis Vuitton, and she has a lovely spot a block back from the beach at Bondi. So she's doing great and loving her life down there.

Speaker 2: 3:52

And then my youngest daughter, nika, lives with me here in Franklin, which is about 20 minutes south of downtown Nashville. So we just kind of doubt that the city and it's a bit more low key came to Franklin because the schools are really good, and so Nika graduated last summer and she is an amazing songwriter and music maker in her own right. So she lives with me here in Franklin at the house while we wait for our green cards to come true, and then I'm sure she will fly the coupon going to see her thing. Which is kind of astounding, really, what she's done and doing already you know, and everyone's like oh, you're so lucky to have you as a dad, she's learned it all from you, or what you know, the usual assumptions that we would make about kids who are doing the same thing that their parents do. But honestly, it's like never pushed her into music. She just got a laptop of mine and started messing around and started composing for the school orchestra and middle school and I mean just amazing, amazing stuff, you know.

Speaker 2: 4:47

And so and I'm here, I make music for a living, I'm a songwriter, I produce for other artists, I sing on stuff for Chill House DJs and I do a lot of stuff for film and TV, including a project that me and Nika have that is this sort of dark Nordic cinematic stuff. And then I write and produce in a bunch of genres the dance music we're with DJs in Amsterdam or whatever. And you know I'm kind of all over the map in music and I really love that. He's a fresh and inspiring and I love so much different music that you know to be a part of creating so many different kinds of songs is really special to me, and I think my main thing I'm sort of trying to do on that front is just make real tangible emotions come from the speakers, you know. So it's really anything that I can help do that with feels like something I want to be a part of. You know so that's kind of the music stuff and you know I have a great community of people here.

Speaker 2: 5:50

You know I'm divorced. My marriage came to an end in May in March 2022, so we can talk about that. We don't have to. But you know, that's just kind of where I'm at in life, as you said.

Speaker 2: 6:02

So you know, have been doing some growing and healing personally. Obviously, that impacts your work and your general sense of happiness on a number of levels and things like that happen in your life and I'm sure some of the people listening have experienced that or are going through that. And you know, to those people I would say that you know, on the other side of healing is, you know, hollow happiness and freedom and peace and acceptance and forgiveness are all part of that journey and you know, absorbing those into the rest of who we are, not just because of the relationship. Catastrophe has been an enormous part of the trajectory that my life is on. So, you know, didn't enjoy the process at the time, but I'm very grateful for the fruit of that healing and forgiveness process that ensued, you know so, and it just opened so many doors Just because of who you become through that process.

Speaker 2: 7:00

I think that's a really important part of where I'm at in my life, as you said, you know. Yeah, so that's kind of where it's at, and just making songs, trying to grow, trying to heal, trying to be a better version of myself and, you know, being open to being inspired by the things around me and trying to I guess you know embrace the welcome that people offer me, like yourself, to come and share and learn, and I've been so inspired by watching your various pieces of content, whether that little reel of you running along the track just showing hearts for a million days in a row, or just you know other insightful things that people that have come on the podcast have shared, whether it's about finances or just inspiration or determination, like health and fitness, like I went through a big health transformation after my marriage ended too, which is such a cliche, but I lost 50 pounds and feel great, and just you know yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:59

I mean just really trying to be someone who takes control of their life and fights for it to be as long and fruitful and happy and contribute really for as long as possible. I think that's really sort of yeah, that's where I'm at and that's a long way of saying all of that, but that's a good start.

Speaker 1: 8:18

One thing that's really stood out from everything that you just said then was it feels like there is no bitterness to a ex-wife. You know relationship breakdowns are quite common, as we know. There's a lot of statistics around it. There's a lot of data. We also know within Australia and New Zealand would be fairly similar and I imagine, the same here in the States that one of the biggest reasons why men take their life by their own hands is because of a relationship breakdown.

Speaker 1: 8:44

And for you to speak so openly, not in such a negatively skewed way, about the healing process and everything that you went through is very interesting to me, because a lot of people whether it's pure hatred or it's just the heartache and the heartbreak of the whole experience they tend to belittle or speak extremely poorly about their ex-partner. And you've not done that, which to me I find very interesting because I believe it's part of that healing process. Not that I've been divorced, but from relationship breakdowns in the past I know there have been plenty of moments where I've just wanted to make them sound as terrible as possible, only because I wanted to uplift myself. You know, I think a breakup is more so a redirection than anything personal. Obviously there are things that can happen that are bad, but, as you've said, you've come out the other side, you've healed and you're very grateful for it.

Speaker 1: 10:43

Would you mind if we did sort of dive into it a little bit, because I'm sure there are people and feel free to say no, but I'm sure there are people who are Sidequo. Yeah, no, I'm wondering, like is divorce an option? Is it? How do I move through it and heal from it? What's you know? Is the grass going to be greener on the other side? For you, what made you sort of know it was time for it to be done, that chapter?

Speaker 2: 11:11

Well, I really want to respect my ex-wife's privacy too, but I didn't choose for the marriage to end. I was happy and I thought that her and I had had a couple of things that had come up during the course of our 20 years of being married that I thought we'd sort of more or less resolved. And so I was kind of blindsided by a sequence of events that you know, when she was culminating in her surprising me with leaving our marriage to pursue a relationship with her ex-husband. Essentially, you know so that I guess that's me not respecting her privacy. But I mean, I don't mean it with any animosity, but you know, really, what I took from it was that I felt like she had told me that she had stayed with me, despite having feelings for this guy, because she thought I was amazing and kind and lovely.

Speaker 2: 12:14

And I just kind of realized and it hurt, you know, and very painful sort of couple of months that you know she was here in the house working through that with me, because she was back in New Zealand when I found out, because she was back renewing her beads and she came back to America for two months to kind of pack up her life and during that process, which is the kind of things you could have done, and it was extremely brave, because then have been in the position of like, hey, I'm leaving our marriage and then come and live in the guest room and just be here with our daughter and me and let me ask all the questions and be angry and confused and try and rationalize it and be like I know, but it didn't work, so this is great. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 12:48

you're going to regret this, you know all of the bargaining and all that that happens and essentially what I could take away from it, that in the end of the two months with that she really was pursuing love over obligation, you know, and I felt like I couldn't I didn't want to sort of be mad and bitter about that and I kind of respected it and I respected that she was being as honest and to read and transparent with me through the process that she could and that I was able to empathize with how difficult a position that she found herself in to be experiencing these emotions, to be walking away from a marriage and essentially her, you know, day to day involvement in our family, you know, and I actually developed an enormous respect for her. I developed an enormous respect which probably sounds weird to people listening, but, you know, just knowing her as a person and knowing that she's not a crazy person and she's not an unclassy, the loveliest person you know, and it's like um, knowing what that would mean to her.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Like you know, I really respected her courage in it and I also was able to accept that if she's 95% in with me, well, I actually deserve someone who's 100% in with me not 95% in there because, well, you're so great that I really love someone else, that you're so great I want it to be you, which is, you know, something she has to like me. It was really kind, you know, but I did actually have you know by the time she left and we went back to the New Zealand. We all flew back together to sort of take her home and for the last couple of weeks of her time in America we were going out for dates, essentially celebrating really what was an incredible 20 years together and just accepting that that chapter had ended, you know, and and so the healing process took a lot longer than that. After, you know, being in New Zealand and then coming back and sort of the reality of being in their home, and there was just me and Nika and there was some logistics and a whole new relationship. I had to learn what's my daughter, because she was used to me being dad who's working all the time in my studio or whatever, and then I'd come up for dinner and just say, hey, how's it going? And play good cop, if they were, if they were having some tension, as teenage daughters and their mothers are prone to do, like that's a very normal thing, like you know. But you know my ex-wife, you know Angela was Nika's person and they were extremely tight, you know.

Speaker 2: 15:10

And so to then step into that role of day to day dad of a teenage girl, I had no idea and it wasn't something I'd done. You're very kind when you say to me like you're a great dad or whatever, and I'm really trying to grow into that, and I haven't always been a great dad and I haven't really known, you know, the extent of the deficit of my parenting. You know, and I mean I haven't, I hadn't been cognizant of what a shitty job as a parent I have been doing until I was confronted with the reality of the kind of parent that my daughter really needs me to be. Now, in the face of this new reality where her mother is not here, you know and it was a huge learning curve and I think I'm starting to figure it out I'm starting to be able to give her the space that she needs, but the closeness she needs and the attention she needs, but also the opportunities for her to just pursue her own thing without me sort of shippiting it or whatever. So this delicate balance that parenting is, you know, of guidance and care and then off you go, pedal the bike. You know, like I ran with you for the first 10 feet but you've got to just keep pedaling. As you come in, oh shit, there's the lamppost. Oh well, you know, pick it up. Like it's been terrifying and amazing and I'm so grateful for the season of closeness that I've had with her since, you know, 2022 and she's 19 now and has to say, an amazing music maker, and you know, the opportunity to watch her become her more completely has just been amazing and the closeness as I say, the closeness, like we have copy dates. You know, there's things we're working out that we can talk about and there's things that we're working out that we can't talk about, and there's, you know, can you get me this from the supermarket? Oh God, that's embarrassing, you know, and you know it's all part of it and it's just been amazing. You know, and, like I say, I don't claim to be an awesome parent or whatever. I'm just trying to figure out how to really give this young human everything he needs in terms of the tools so that she knows her worth, that her she has. I want her to have no doubt ever that her father just adores her and thinks she is absolutely spectacular human and deserves nothing less than that from any other humans in her life who she may come to me in the future in terms of relationships and things like that. I don't want her to be trying to fill a void that I didn't give her what she needed in terms of the confidence that she is incredible and faked. They're worthy of just being treated incredibly well so that she would never settle for something less. You know things like that. I think it's really important as we guide our daughters particularly but our children in general, but daughters especially and to the next phase of their life where they will be finding their own romantic partners and figuring out all of that stuff for themselves. You know as big as big. So you know that part of it's been amazing the forgiveness, you know.

Speaker 2: 17:59

When I came back to America after taking Angela back to New Zealand, I went to the woods for a week with some friends and I kind of sort of think of it like I found some things in the woods and I left some things in the woods and it was a really grand form at a time.

Speaker 2: 18:15

I spent a bunch of time with some, it was a men's trip and we went trout fishing and I spent a lot of time by myself and did like a five mile hike every day in the woods and, you know, was on a real fitness check and just try to really eat good and just get my mind really focused on not what I'm trying to do or achieve from any sort of material perspective, but what kind of life do I want to live, what do I want to embody in terms of my values and how can I really bring what the best?

Speaker 2: 18:48

How am I going to just dunk in the shit out of this life? You know, how am I really going to. You know, how am I going to make it count for something, given this opportunity that I have? I'm a bit more bandwidth, a bit more focused, a bit less responsibility for another human, like a spouse, you know? Like what am I going to do with this opportunity, you know? So that was quite a transformative and pivotal moment, you know, wow I have. They say the world is your oyster.

Speaker 2: 19:21

It's like you know, yeah, you're presented with this sense of standing at the edge of a yawning chasm, as they say, and that can be terrifying or it can be extremely exciting and exhilarating, and I think at times it's been both, honestly. But you know perspective, you know like the mindset of this is an opportunity for you to be there. This is an opportunity for me to really examine my values, examine my motivation. You know, what kind of man do I want to be? You know, and I know, with none of the things that I aspire to be a fear, fall out and secure, lonely and just kind of miserable, and I mean all those things are fairly natural in the wake of something like that. But I was also sort of hopeful and optimistic, and I'm an idiot in the sense that something, that what's going on in my life. I'm really hopeful and optimistic, and why it's gonna be great. You know it can be just separately, bro, but like it's gonna be, sweet man, the check is going to come tomorrow, gonna be fine, and you know whatever. Delusional probably, but I think that process, you know it's been so materially transformative that I just I can't look at it as anything other than absolute gift, in the sense that to be able to heal and forgive and really tangibly forgive and let go. And you know, and I honestly don't harbor any bitterness about it, you know, and and that makes me really proud of myself because I know that I only got there because I worked for it, you know, and it's not. I'm not like, oh sure, trample me and believe it's not. I don't feel that. You know, I don't feel like either diminishing what it was as the answer or blaming, or being better. I think I stepped it a folly of what being hit in the face with a fucking grapevine. It was not fun, you know, and but at the same time, to quietly and steadily pick yourself up and walk forward and just really arrive at a place of forgiveness and wholeness and yourself, I think has to be the bowl.

Speaker 2: 21:23

And I've tried to share with people who have talked to me about other friends who are confronted with the fact that their marriage is ending. You know, I've been able to revanch the people who have been like I got your number from there. They said you've been through some stuff and I just wonder if I can meet you and talk to you and, yeah, some sort of good friend, very close friends with some people over the past couple of years to been going through similar experiences and if my experience, if my journey can help someone get to a place where they're not better, they're not practiced with their ex and not the kids are not seeing this tumultuous unraveling of the universe. I think for a lot of kids it's so traumatic when mum and dad are the universe and then not only are they not together but they're actually just trying to destroy each other and so toxic and harmful, you know.

Speaker 2: 22:13

But if anything like land can help someone get to a more but a tranquil place with dealing with all of that and a real sense of happiness and forgiveness and understanding and acceptance, and look, and maybe this, maybe in their situation it's not that the wife person loved someone else, maybe she just went and had an affair and it was really shitting to do, you know, and there's no nobility in that whatsoever. I think you can still get to a place where you just accept that you deserve more. And that's where people talk about the self worth thing. I think it's a huge part that I hadn't really understood. I heard about it for years. You got to know your worth, you know, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:49

I think I'm cool, I think knowing your worth is really like just an innate sense of I just deserve the human level, some respect and some commitment. And if I'm leaning in, I need reciprocity. I mean, reciprocity was the biggest work, I mean. I think it probably always will be a very huge, important word and it is really important. And I think if someone's having an affair on you, you can choose to be bitter and go to war and all that sort of thing, or you can just accept that that chapter is the end, that you deserve more. You deserve reciprocity. You can always be like oh, it's a reflection of me.

Speaker 2: 23:22

It's like if there's a reflection of someone's ability to lean into you and work through things, and if it's not reciprocal and you're not leaning in together, it's a painful process to disengage that.

Speaker 2: 23:32

But the reality is that there is happiness waiting to you on the other side of that healing and you know, lord willing, you'll find love again, like you know, I mean, and the most healed and best happy version of yourself is going to attract a far more healed, happy version of the person. That's probably going to be a better fit in the first place. And I think accepting and letting go of some of that stuff like the hurt of the rejection and the sense of failure and all the things that go with the marriage and you're a big and I'm not diminishing it, like but I really just feel. I just felt like I have a wife that has played for us like man. I didn't have anyone to tell me that, like you know, you're going to get through this and it's very hard to see that when you're in it. But knowing what I know now, I really want to help other people understand that too. Like you know, you are going to be okay.

Speaker 2: 24:26

Like it hurts, it really hurts. It's hard Not going to happen like that. But you know, forgiveness and wholeness are attainable things. I mean, and it's like anything in my life, like if I can do it, there's a really good chance you can do it, and probably better. I mean, I'm not that awesome, you know. At least I'm not. It's just I'm just a dude. So if there's something that I'm doing that someone's a lab at awesome, it's like man. Well, if you apply yourself, then you're probably the better than me, because I'm a horrendous procrastinator and I am really good at talking myself out of things you know. So go get it, you know.

Speaker 1: 25:02

So much there that we could dive into and appreciate the honesty with all of that. For me, there's some really key things that sort of smacked me in the face around moving through that healing process and I guess what I would take away personally you know you said you did that a week away with your mates, after which was, you know, time just fishing and chatting, but also time with yourself. Many men don't spend time with themselves. We avoid it like the plague. We are very uncomfortable in our own head and, as you were saying, all this whole experience for you, because you chose to take responsibility and, as much as it hurt and it was painful and made you feel certain ways, you were growing into the best version of yourself so that when that next person comes, they're going to get that best version of you. It's more rejections, of redirection. It's like, okay, do you want 95% of someone or do you want 100%? 100% is always better. That's what we're striving for. But taking me into whether it's bloke strips man, I'm a big believer that all of us should always have time with our buddies, like we need to be interdependent, we need to have stuff gone on in our life so we are reminded of the value that we have, because sometimes, when we become codependent, we lose that because we're so focused on it the unit, which is also very important. But we need that interdependence to once again be reminded of how fucking awesome we are.

Speaker 1: 26:28

When you were talking about Harald Lynn, there was something else that you said that was phenomenal the honesty that you had with your ex-wife. Like to me, one thing that I, amy, and I, strive to have is complete honesty and transparency, and sometimes we say things to each other that isn't nice to hear, or maybe truth hurts sometimes, but we're doing it because we want to be better or we want the best for each other. A lot of people avoid that you don't know how to sit with the uncomfortable conversations. Or a lot of men say I don't know how to articulate how I feel. Okay, well, is that going to be the reason why you don't solve a problem going on in your life, or should we start learning how to articulate how you feel? And I guess that also is what drew me to you, jeff is your music is like you run so much with the emotion of it.

Speaker 1: 27:22

I love your worth and I've told you that, but I generally listen to your work, while I'm doing my thing, while I'm getting inspiration whether I'm creating content or whatever it's just like what gets me going, because it makes me feel things. And I think part of the beauty and the benefit of that is when you can get in a situation where you're allowed to feel something. The next step would be how do I start articulating what I'm feeling? And that's not really me that is writing or it's creating content. But while that may seem odd to some people, it's like where that really adds benefit to my life is how I can communicate on the podcast or how I can communicate to my wife or to my parents. It's like because I've done that work and so don't shy away from it.

Speaker 1: 28:06

And just how you've spoken about this whole experience and there was nearly had me tearing up there at one point when you said you know, she chose love over obligation and I was like fuck, never thought about that before and I don't know what I would do in that situation, because part of me is somebody's like we're raising a family together, like we're in this. But I can also see the other side of chasing love, because you deserve that back as well, right, like it's not just staying together for the idea of it, you know the obligation of it. I've never thought about that. So that gave me a bit of a smack between the chops and I can't imagine what that would be like to go through. I just can't imagine.

Speaker 2: 28:50

No, I mean, yeah, it's not fun, and then it was. We've all probably been broken up with all broken up with somebody, and I don't think either, sure it's easier to wear in some way. So just different, you know. But, like I say, I feel like there's an enormous hope for healing and growth and, like I say, I never thought I would get over it. You know, when it was all happening I thought I will never fall in love again, I will never get over this woman. I don't, I couldn't see a way that I would ever be okay, honestly, you know, and yeah, you heal and you move on, you know, and you grow and it's okay.

Speaker 1: 29:27

Do you feel you will still always love your ex-wife?

Speaker 2: 29:35

I mean that's a funny yeah Well, but no, it's just not like it. Um, I think Love her no, I mean, I'll what it? She's the mother of Meaka, you know, like she's someone who's been someone special on my life since I was 18 years old. We got married when we're 30 but, like you know, and we're not like in touch a whole lot, honestly, you know Transparency and it's kind of like I have moved on, you know, but I, my goal for her and I as Parents was always to be like when needy gets married or whatever, and we show up and it's gonna be lovely, not just Friendly, like genuinely lovely, I mean, and more than amicable, you know. And so she kind of a need is graduation, um, in your summer with her parents, so so lovely to see them all and I just let them in the house and I wouldn't say with a friend because it's like this is gonna be great for me. Yeah, you know, and I'm not like a faint, like I'm not like fine, I will go and sleep on the field and you just have the home. No, I have friend. I was saying what it's fine, but I, you know, wanted me to have the benefit of that time with them, you know, because it would have been a really tough yet and you know I'm very, very difficult and so but you know, hey, I'd always come around and we would have a costly on the back patio and just sort of chat for a few hours and I'm gonna get back to the house. That it was pretty chill, you know, and we was still working through some logistics for our actual divorce proceedings and all that which was mental. I'll think that it's. You know, that's fine and we kind of tried to keep it all chill as possible and just see it done.

Speaker 2: 31:14

And I remember we went to the lawyers office here in Franklin and find everything up and chatted, and you know, with the lawyer and find everything in in the elevator. You know, well, we're just hugging and it was like, you know, if that's how you can get to the place of, but it just enough respect for each other, if nothing more. You know, I like to be like this was an amazing chapter of our lives, you know, and this chat is ended and if you can accept that and get to a place, it's sort of wholeness with it all and just To give it and you know, and be grateful for it. I think it's a very, very freeing Place to get to. So there's no, there's no animosity there, that you know, and we're not like, oh hey, how's it going. But she'll reach out to me about things, chicken on the can, stuff again. It's all very, very chill, you know.

Speaker 2: 31:58

So I hadn't thought about in the sense of what I always love her, I think. You know I'm not gonna pretend there wasn't a lot of hurt involved to, even though for seven it I'm not gonna see like I'm forgiven and I love her. I think nothing it's reality. I think they'll always be. I'm concerned, like I wouldn't want her to, wouldn't want any harm to him and what I want to know. She's okay, you know. So the same, but I think it's definitely. I'm not gonna paint it like it's oh, now we're best friends and we hang out all the time. It's not that either, you know. But there's definitely no feelings or animosity around the deeper. It's a much more neutral sort of being.

Speaker 1: 32:42

I think you know To be care, you know no, I was just curious because I've been asked that question myself in regards to previous exes and stuff like that, and you never really know what to say. I'm like I really enjoyed that part of my life. There was obviously I'd done things wrong and vice versa, but a lot of that had shaped who I was and I really did have good times during those years, otherwise why would I stick around?

Speaker 2: 33:09

and yeah, and I would definitely say that too, like it was gonna mate in 20 years. So I would definitely say that, yeah, yeah so me, then it's.

Speaker 1: 33:18

I just once again not dismissing the hurt you experienced and what you probably still do think about, but because you've taken such a I Guess really empath Wouldn't be the word You've tried to remove as much pain from the experience as possible. It's allowed you to heal. I think if you wanted to hold on hold a grudge and be bitter about it, it's like you're never gonna move forward and, as you said, you're never gonna be that best happy version of yourself for that next person, or even just most importantly for yourself. But for that next person, you know, don't draw out a divorce and have be full of hate. That's just not fun, a fun way to live. And you said you were saying, like, whether you're optimistic or just I know silly sometimes, what it's like to me it's like you may as well be optimistic, you'll deal with the pain and that I guess the bad shit if that happens. But there's no point being pessimistic because that's not a fun way to live. Like if you were to choose, be at the fork and you know, and one's like your life's gonna be shit, miserable, or your life's gonna be full of Adventure and excitement and happiness. You always gonna take that left lane right for those watching on YouTube, I'm put less. It's like that's the choice.

Speaker 1: 34:34

But many of us mentally don't think that we have control over our thoughts. Like we look at Our first thought, no, it's always subconscious. It's like maybe things trigger certain things, but our follow-up thought we're in control of. And the more you flex that muscle, meaning you Practice thinking about or visualizing or creating the life that you want and how you need to show up in order to be that version of yourself, the more conditioned you become to go like. You know, I woke up this morning I was like and I want to get out of bed. And then the second thought say, yeah, dude, I get to go read a book or I get to go for a run or I get to do whatever I want to do out my coffee, and that's just conditioning.

Speaker 1: 35:13

And I think the beauty of Understanding that we can control that second thought. It puts me in the belief that we can create, you know, the most insane life that we want, the one that fulfills us and has us around incredible people Experiencing incredible things, so that when we are 95 years old, on our fucking deathbed, we're looking back on what a loss that was epic rather than being the old dude. On this Bitter old man on the bed. Yeah, I'm still married. Pissed off at my ex-wife from 1943. It's like that's a matter man.

Speaker 2: 35:46

And it happens, it happens. You know, people live in huge business, you know, and bring no joy to themselves or the people around them. So, yeah, no, I'm with you, man, I am, I think, life for all. We know we get one shot right like, so we don't always get to choose what Happens to us. You know, and we've all seen these memes a million times so like we don't get to choose what happens to us. You know, like but and and we're not always in control of our thoughts. I Was just a thing, I was not always just like determined about how I was gonna navigate this, like spent many months Feeling so wrecked, you know, really, really wrecked. So I'm not trying to be like I am some stupid human guy, it's real easy, it's not, it's not easy and that's it, aren't easy. In it like, but you're right as those.

Speaker 2: 36:36

The second thought that did the deliberate act. You know the discipline, the one, the one that says I am not just what happens to me, I am and I'm not just the bag of skin and bone that I'm what, what? What is the driver think? What is the one looking out through the eyeballs? Think, like, what the essence of me gonna do that? Because the essence of me Isn't feeling the emotions, the emotions of the chemicals happening in this soft bag of Mark. You know that's walking around wrecked and skin. You know that's the chemicals happening, that's the emotions.

Speaker 2: 37:12

What does the essence of me know to be true? Because I'm not the chemicals, I'm the, I'm the vapor that's looking out through the glass balls. You know what I mean. I'm the driver. You know what, what, what? That's the essence of me. Like, not the chemical compounds and blood and bones, that's just the suit we wear.

Speaker 2: 37:30

You know, like, so what do what? What does that he's with me know to be true? And it's like, well, I know that I have so much to offer. I know that I love people. I know that I'm Definitely a man who can pin no, I'm a man who can love well and want this year and create and inspire and just be hopeful myself and like, if you can Connect with that he said you sort of separate to the pain of the emotions and separate to the circumstances and be like and I'm just saying this on the fly, I haven't sort of thought about it, but I feel like it's true for me, like I think I just was able to separate who.

Speaker 2: 38:08

I think I really am inside from the shit that was going on. You know that just to kind of differentiate Like, am I just gonna be? Like, oh, that hurts and so now I'm just far forever. No, like, no, it's not, it's not gonna work. It has to be like. My wife has to be awesome. I have to show my children what it's like to recover and Come back strong and and take control of my life and make something of it, despite the hardship that it had, you know, and so I think, yes, that's the important, that determination, man, you know.

Speaker 1: 38:46

Earlier. You, like I, wanted Jeff Duncan the shit out of it, but it's also Now and it's probably move into the kids. But it's like you are the role model as well, how you respond to adversity or Respond, react how we want to look at it. You're setting an example for your children and the way that you you and your ex-wife have handled this With with honesty and and support, and obviously, once again, we're not dismissing any of the fucking heartache and all of that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2: 39:13

Oh, yeah, the.

Speaker 1: 39:16

Way that you guys have done it, even from what I'm hearing, it's so admirable and it's teachy, it's. I'm learning a lot I'm sure your Daughters are as well around how to show respect for one another, how to live your truth right, how to love Over. You know, it's just such a unique thing to see and experience and it takes such a unique individual to be able to provide those lessons. And you have touched on the fact. You know. He said You're learning to parent. As you know, I'm not a parent yet, but I'm gonna experience that at some point, I would imagine, and we're all figuring it out, and it's gonna be unique depending on the person stands. They're staring back at us. But if we hold off from having a crack at what parenting should look like, you're never gonna learn. And, as you said, you're getting better at it. You understanding the boundaries, what you can talk about, what you can't talk about, and all that's Such a beautiful experience that no one will ever get to take away from you and no one will ever truly understand like you and your daughters do. Right, like and that's just Probably one of the greatest gifts you could have been given right, because now you're not just coming upstairs eating dinner and saying, good, I am here, I'm good, cop, it's like you're truly Molding their lives. That's fucking awesome. I see.

Speaker 1: 40:31

I really want any men who have children. And one of my, or couple of my good mates, jeff. When I met them, they were all like baby. We were like tough rugby boys, didn't really show emotions, but watching them when they had their kids all had sons, funnily enough, they just turned to when I say water, it's like they became vulnerable. I started to be like man.

Speaker 1: 40:52

I've now got this little human being that I've created, that I'm in control, like I'm shaping their life, and I don't want to be the dude who just turns to the bottle all the time. I want to be a better role model. I want to get my health in order. I want to make sure that I can have my finances in order to be at home when I need to be at home or want to be able to show them how I feel and all of that sort of stuff that we think about but don't necessarily take action on. And so you're doing that and I wanted to ask them. So no, especially with Nika she's. You guys have done a song together and you've also got a project together, right?

Speaker 2: 41:28

Yeah, we've done a bunch of music together. We have a project for TV and film called Holvding, which is the name of a Norwegian ship that traveled to New Zealand in 1872, carrying Nika's ancestors on her mother's side from Norway, and so and that word also means chief, which is kind of awesome because chief's kind of the front face of it, and so the badass kind of girl with long hair and a hood in the woods looking like a badass, and it's this very dark, murderous, viking, haunting cinematic music, you know, and it's super rad. So and we you know that we were with a company out in LA that lands that on TV spots and things like that before us, you know. So it's been super fun. And I mean she holds her own and that like it's not like oh, here's the song here, how it's gonna be. She'd be like that's lame, let's beat that. Here's the melody, here's all the vocal stuff and she bonkers at vocal production, like she makes all these amazing layers of things and it's just like so ethereal and vibey and cool. It's like if Inya was a murderous Viking, instead of a sort of sweet whatever Inya Irish sort of theory in the woods, like probably I mean she sold 80 million records or something and thought she's massive. But yeah, so it's super cool.

Speaker 2: 42:45

So yeah, just being a part of that with their and you know to your point before you said you're sort of molding your kids and say they're inspiring me, they're molding me, I'm learning so much, their enormous amount of teaching comes from my children. To me too, it's not like a one sided thing where I'm like I will impart to you the wisdom of the parents, it's like knock off dad. No, it's like they really have so much to teach me. So, and with how Nika and Asha have both sort of grown through this situation, and I mean hugely inspiring to me too. So it's not and I can't sort of segue out of that because of the conversation without giving so much credit to a few very close friends who would take my calls at three in the morning for a month.

Speaker 2: 43:30

And there's one particular good friend of mine, luke, who lives in Newcastle, australia actually, and him and his wife and his brother live with us for three years for playing music in America and lived in our guest rooms and stuff, you know. So they're like family and I've been out to New Year a few times for Joel's wedding and stuff like that and really dear dear friends and Luke like every day, like it was really only the past six months or maybe even the past three months where we just didn't talk every single day, you know what I mean. And so he was there for me, like, and I got some friends in town here, dustin and Aaron, you know some guys who really would just pick up the phone or come and check on me. You know, through some fricking dark days then you know, but yeah, I wouldn't recommend trying to do it by yourself.

Speaker 2: 44:19

You need, I mean, brotherhood, really, you know, but closeness, you need people who you can rely on to be like, I'm not bored of hearing this. You know. You can tell me what you need to tell me for the hundredth day in a row and it sucks and I'm here for it. You know you have to find those people and lean on them and hopefully one day you can reciprocate, but hopefully not through the same kinds of dick as that. So maybe once you're healed and better and you crush your business near the big yacht and your super yacht, you can take them on a trip to the Greek islands to reciprocate or something. But like, yeah, full credit, man, I did not get here by myself. You know my children have played a huge part. My friends have played a huge part, you know. So that's important to acknowledge.

Speaker 1: 45:06

The environment and the company that we keep is more important than many people give credit to, and I think in life we will grow apart from people, and that's completely okay, dependent upon what we're looking to achieve from our life. But one thing I feel is very underutilized is what we can learn from having conversations with people who are older than us, you know, who've lived maybe 30, 40 years more than us, because they have perspective, and perspective. You can learn stuff through your own experiences, but you can also learn from other people's experiences and there is, I think, a lot about death. Jeff and I don't want to be morbid on it, but I always think about because I podcasted my grandfather just before he died. He was 94 years old, lived on the farm since he was 14 years old and we didn't have an incredible verbal relationship growing up because he was just the tough farm guy that I would follow to the Chookpan and watch him brand and ride around on the motorbikes, but we didn't communicate a lot, but I still always there was something I admired about him and it hasn't been until I've thought about it now that I do. But anyway, he moved in with my parents in town during his sort of last 10 years and we developed an awesome relationship, like communicating, and I started podcasting it, just asking him questions about life, what he would have done differently, things that he enjoyed, and he ended up being an incredible painter Like a farm boy is now painting as fucking mind blowing. But what I learned from that also, I tell you. He's probably also spoken to people who are alive in the 1800s, 1850s or whatever. You know what I mean. So what he can tell me about life I took for granted until, ultimately, it was almost too late.

Speaker 1: 46:50

So for me, one thing I really encourage people to do is speak and learn to people who are older than you and have more experiences. Also, speak to people who are in the same, I guess, season of life as you. Once again, you get perspective, you might get feedback, you get support. And finally, as I speak to people who are younger than you, I've podcasted with my as my nephew, who's 12 now, and the way he sees the world and the questions that he asks me, I'm like, holy shit, I never thought about life like that or I never considered that. And all of these different perspectives are helping me understand myself more but also get really We'll create better direction around what I want and what's truly important to me.

Speaker 1: 47:31

But if I was only to continue listening to Locky, I'm fucked. It's not fun in my head majority of the time and I still don't know so many things. So that's why I'm very grateful that I get to speak to people like yourself, jeff, who has the hardships that you have had were going to help me at some point in my life. Even just hearing things about building relationships with your daughters and the importance of that, but also giving credit to them from learning, it's like awesome tick. I'm going to make sure I'm aware of that and I hope that other people who are listening are gaining those same feedback and so definitely never undervalue the people that you get to have conversations with.

Speaker 2: 48:09

Totally agree, man, totally agree. I mean, we only know what we know. So if we stop there, it's a fairly limiting perspective, you know, and if we know a lot, it still runs out, you know.

Speaker 1: 48:27

What was like, what's something that you're most excited about in your life right now, Jeff?

Speaker 2: 48:35

I'm on the creative streak that has kind of emerged over the last probably year, but in the last three months it's really for the pythons, and one of the ways that that is being able to be expressed into the world is I'm working on a few music projects that are really different from each other, but one is with Electronic Duo here in Nashville called Nawa and they're first well, the first, I guess the first proper single from this collaboration came out today. Ironically it's called Made for Love and it's just like the electronic music that's hard for me to kind of say. It sounds like it sucks and such. It probably is inspired by the fact that Fred again is probably the most inspiring artist to me over the last 12 months. Like his music is incredible. Not everyone's gonna love it, but for me I love the emotion and tangibility of the way it feels, even though it's largely electronic music. But he did a tiny death concert that was just magnificent. I think he has just such a beautiful spirit that comes across in the music and even though this music is made with largely synthetic instruments, it has such life and emotion and beauty to it that I just find so compelling and inspiring and so and also I love a bunch of the new Skrillett stuff. You put out two albums at the start of last year and you know I want to be worked with Fred again on a bunch of that too. But like some of that music is rude.

Speaker 2: 50:03

I come from a very rock background. I played rock guitar as a kid and you know, traveled playing guitar for years and whatever. So I have a lot of like guitar influenced music. So it's really been cool just to really dive in some electronic stuff and that project feels super fun to me. It's super emotive. It's like really unassamedly easy in a way lyrically.

Speaker 2: 50:27

But I don't think of it that way. I think people who are too cool to be in touch with their emotions would say it was cheesy. But I love cheese. Have you eaten cheese? Like it's a shit. So I don't regard cheesy as a word that should be used to diminish something. You know someone does it cheesy. I said, oh yeah, I love them. On the sharp cheddar, yeah, it's good. So you like it, you know. Nice. But you know, and I'm a hopeless, hopeful romantic and I'm definitely a motive lead person and so to me making something, it's about wanting to fall in love or being in love or, you know, like this music it's about that stuff and it just has this real beautiful quality to it. I love that. I also made a friend at the dog park a couple years ago by name of Chris Caraba who had a band called Dashboard Conditional and he and I have started working on a bunch of songs. So his new project from his new record, the Dashboard, and that has been just some of the most and begorating music making and the sense of just going on creative journeys with someone who I've listened to for decades and been a fan of the music and then never kind of beat his door down to be like, hey, we should write together.

Speaker 2: 51:35

I typically wait to be invited, you know, like, especially from people who I would perceive as up the food chain from me. I'm never going to be like, hey, yo, you're a big deal, we should write like. You know, it's just not as a Kiwi or Australian, probably way of handling our business. You know, we I think there's that movie, the Lost Boys, you know, keep the subtle and from the 80s, and in that the vampire dad or whatever it's sort of trying to date this woman and he's like I can't just walk over the threshold you have to invite me in because I'm a vampire or whatever you know, and it's like I'm not a vampire. But I do appreciate the sentiment of being invited into a process like that when it's someone's art and that already established themselves and are a kind of knowing quantity and the music thing.

Speaker 2: 52:21

I'm never going to ring up someone famous, whether it's an artist or a producer or a writer, and be like hey, this is me trying to hustle and can we write? I always wait to be invited and so there's probably a lot of opportunities that have passed me by. But I think what's happened is that people who sort of recognize and respond to my energy and vibe and resonates with them, then they feel compelled to invite me. So I don't regret that. I don't feel like I've missed out on things that could have been meant for me. I think everything that is meant for me has found me and will continue to do that. Based on that philosophy. I don't think I'm missing out, I'm hustled out. There might be like no dude, you got to pick up the phone, call 400 people a day, so I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 2: 53:02

So, making these songs with him when he invited me into that process, you know being really special and cool. And now some of the collaborators that he's kind of bringing on board to sort of be on songs and feature songs and help produce some songs and things like that, it's just, I mean bonkers, it's a list of people that if I had made a list of people, a bunch of the names would be on the list and maybe the people that just in his world that have been about the music and love what they're hearing, and I mean it's really exciting, you know so. And there's a bunch of songs I've made with some friends that have gone into the hands of some DJs that have some just incredible collaborators on them that you could not. You couldn't write a check to anyone for any number to make that happen. That would only happen because someone heard it was like I want to be a part of that, like. So I would love to tell you a name job. I really just can't. But like, when it comes out I'll be name dropping that shit hard. But you know like I'll be milking it when it happens as much as I can. I don't mean that in a sort of vampire way, but you know I'll be celebrating those releases when they happen to, you know. But so there's a lot of exciting music stuff.

Speaker 2: 54:09

I feel like, emotionally, I'm not bound up in this other situation of being heartbroken and hurt and trying to recover from that. I'm not distracted by that. Now I think I've let a lot of things go and I am sort of free to just feel my emotions and make music with them, which is how I like to operate creatively. I want to feel something and I want to make it feel how it's supposed to feel when it comes out of the speakers, whether it's a song I'm singing or a song that I'm working on with another artist, you know. And so that's been exciting, like just really sort of turning the gas back up on the cold.

Speaker 2: 54:41

I'm here to make songs and write music and produce and make awesome shit with people, like you know, because I think for a long time it was hard for people, like people would come over and write songs and I would have some kind of even with Chris working on some dashboard stuff. You know, earlier in 2023, I'd be having some freaking meltdown because it was just a shit day, you know, and these people have been really gracious and walked with me through some hard times, but also celebrating the fact that I'm feeling good and how you're holding up Like dude. I feel awesome, let's go, let's make some banger, and it's just great. I think they've stuck by me and seen me grow and heal and I really like I have people who are just so excited for me and are supporting me, like so just like, I think, relieved, but also just genuinely excited that I'm kind of back. You know which anyone who's been through this shit can probably relate. You just do feel like you lose a piece of yourself for a minute while you just put yourself back together and figure it out, you know. So that's all really exciting.

Speaker 2: 55:43

I'm excited that our green card process is moving forward and you know we've got the red combo cards in the mail the other day, so we're closer and closer and closer. And once that kind of happens, once that arrives, once the green card actually arrives, nika's opportunities will just blow wide open, because she's able then to work in an air car instead of just being like I can sing on things. There's a hobby, but I can't really go and crush it. So I'm super excited for her and also just that sense of stability, I think it's. I've been here for 12 years on a visa that we have to go and renew and travel and spend money and lawyers and all the things, and I think it's I'm probably oblivious to the effect that that's had on me in terms of stability and I think I'm really excited to get that sense of I can breathe out because now for 10 years I can just be here and then after five years maybe I'll become a joint citizen or something or marry some gorgeous American woman and be here forever. You know whatever, but it's, I think, the sense of stability, of not being like the visa's going to expire and who knows if I'll get the next one approved and all of that. It's stressful. So I'm excited about that too.

Speaker 2: 56:44

Man, just in general stability, because I really want to be like making music, creative endeavors why any business endeavor? You know it takes real focus and discipline and energy and it's not something you can phone in and do three hours a day and sit on the couch contemplating why you feel so low. Like you have to have material bandwidth to put on the line to make a dream like this come true. Like you can't. No one I know who's crushed it has done it on three hours a day and being heartbroken and living that out Like you have to be a fucking on deck. Like you know what I mean. It's hard, it's a terrible industry to you know. Be like I'm going to go and kill it. Like delusion is I'm highly recommended prerequisite, you know, and but it's, it's going to work, dude. Like I'm so excited and I'm so happy to have that bandwidth. Back in that excitement and not feeling like I'm just all I can think about is the pain that I'm so happy to be past that you know.

Speaker 2: 57:43

So if anyone's going through pain and feeling like that, you will get to that place. You're like, oh shit, I'm thankful I went through that, but I'm thankful that I'm through it, you know. And if you're not there yet, call me and I'll talk to you. Yeah, let's get amped. We're going to get, don't you?

Speaker 1: 58:01

need to get some shirts printed.

Speaker 2: 58:03

Yes, get fucking amped mate. Try to make us down all these. What's that film, chopper? You know the best Aussie accent? Oh right, it's very good, neville. Thanks, have to fuck up, neville. So I love that. I'm talking about job. You're trying to wrap up the show and I just like let's talk about Joppa's, the greatest story of the year.

Speaker 1: 58:29

Dude, thank you so much for Sorry. Go straight around. Where can people support your music? Find out more about you as well.

Speaker 2: 58:37

Well, my Venmo is nice. You can find me on. I mean, I hang out on Instagram. I don't really hang out on Facebook, but I'm trying. I'm definitely trying to do less social media this year, but I do use Instagram because I feel like it's a much more interactive way of communicating with people about what you're doing, but also supporting what they're doing. I love the reciprocity of that, and no one rants about politics on Instagram, so, for the most part, so Instagram. Jeff, underscore, underscore, duncan yeah, come find me, come in the team. Let's hang out on Instagram, become Instagram friends.

Speaker 1: 59:10

All of that's going to be in the show notes so you can easily click it. But, guys, thanks for listening to the episode. Once again, if you enjoyed it, share it, give it a follow, so you don't miss more future episodes. We might even have Jeff back on. But, mate, thank you so much for your time. I've taken away so much from that. I've got literally a page full of notes which everyone can find in the show notes. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 2: 59:32

Thank you, brother. I appreciate your time and thanks for hanging out. We'll do it for more. Thanks, bye.