Redefining Relationships with Alcohol w Ruari Fairbairns #561

Ruari and Lachlan discuss the impact of alcohol and the importance of changing one's relationship with it. They highlight the growing message about alcohol's negative effects and the need for a shift in the conversation.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:51

Rari. Welcome back, mate. Episode two Second time around. It's so good to have you back on the show.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Thank you for having me on once again. I hope that we find some new material. I don't want to sound repetitive.

Speaker 1: 1:07

No, I think it's an important message, but I have listened to our podcast. I've also listened to a couple of other ones that you've been on just trying to look for new things that are happening. A lot's happened since we've spoken in 2021. It's crazy to also listened to a couple of other ones that you've been on just trying to look for new things that are happening and a lot's happened since we've spoken in 2021. It's crazy to think that feels like yesterday, because I continue to share this episode with a lot of mates in my life. It's whenever people have a problem with alcohol or it's always the work meetings fault that why they got drunk. I'm like, so sick of hearing those excuses. Listen to this episode and it's just fired me up to get you back on the show.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Amazing Good. Thank you for having me back on, and you know it's been amazing to get some of this exposure and just how fast this message is growing and there is now a very long list. I mean my part, my, my halftime of my role now is podcast guesting and and interviews and journalist interviews and things like that. It's it's uh really going some uh, some, some speed, which is super exciting, just to put that into perspective. So where this really came from was, uh, the hooberman lab did a podcast on um, um, it's called um, the truth about alcohol, and it's now the most watched and most shared and that's the number one podcast in the world, right? So this is the. This is the top episode of the top podcast in the world Um, and I think that was a huge shock to um Andrew Huberman. Um, by the way, if you don't know that podcast, it's Professor Andrew Huberman is the professor of gosh. He says so many words when he describes it, but it's neuroscience and ophthalmology and popphylology at Stanford University. I can't do all those things, but he debunks neuroscience and science and it's an amazing, an amazing podcast, so rich roll I then had been reaching out to for a while, which is a pretty big podcast.

Speaker 2: 3:00

I think it's 13th largest in the world on spotify uh, 400 million downloads. And um, I was like you know the? The message we're putting out to the world is all wrong. I can tell you why. We can reach a much wider audience if we change the conversation.

Speaker 2: 3:15

And when I got and sat down with Ridge he said did you know that the who Women Lab is now the most watched and everything else? And this is why we've brought you on at the peak time of year for our podcast? So they put me on week two, which is when they're every single year their listens are their absolute peak. So they wanted to put me in the front seat Just to let you know that that podcast has been shared nearly 200,000 times just on one single platform. It's hitting over 8 million views now and it's more watched than any of his other celebrity guests in the last two years Schwarzenegger, stephen Bartlett, all of those things. So it's gone properly viral.

Speaker 2: 3:57

And what does that mean? What is that saying? Finally, after nine years I've been podcasting for nine years after nine years of did you name the world with this message? It's now starting to listen. People are rethinking their relationship with alcohol. This conversation of hey, I think alcohol is holding you back. Is there a part of you that thinks that alcohol is holding you back? Because that's the truth and, finally, that message is resonating with people.

Speaker 1: 4:28

Such a powerful episode and, as I said, I've been sharing it with a lot of the episode that we've done and a lot of your resources, with people, a lot of people, when they think about alcohol, it's like all or nothing, so their instant thought is I need to cut it out or I can just carry on with my life, and that's not essentially the big issue. Right, like the big issue is more so changing our relationship with it, understanding how we can moderate our alcohol use and find moments to do that. And I know for you for a bit of the backstory, for those who haven't listened to the previous episodes you got to a point in your career where work meetings and the binge drinking stuff was ruining your marriage and almost ruined your life completely. A lot of men are in that position. Marriages are on the brink of divorce, but they lean into alcohol. They lean into it as a coping mechanism. Why do you feel you were different and you decided to change your relationship with alcohol?

Speaker 2: 5:23

Thank you. I want to just poke at what you just said there a smidge. It's all very well sitting here today saying, oh, I nearly lost my marriage and I nearly had these issues happen to me, but that wasn't the truth in the moment. Okay, I just had a very tumultuous marriage and I'm sure many of us have those. When we started dating, my parents and friends around us gave oh my good Lord, we give you guys days max, right, because it was such a tumultuous, you know, marriage. It was such a tumultuous relationship.

Speaker 2: 5:58

Jane had very severe childhood trauma, very, very different, difficult childhood, and so this whole brewery has problems with his relationship was not new to anyone, right? And my wife was like the problem is your drinking. And I was like, well, this is really simple, it's part of my job. Do you want the Jimmy Cheoo's or? You know that was basically my attitude, right? Do you want the nice house? Do you want the car? Do you want the sinks?

Speaker 2: 6:24

Because this is part of the job and in my world that was just normal. It was perfectly normal. Perfectly normal that wives would be very unhappy with their men. Perfectly normal that their wives would give the men lots of grief when you go home. Perfectly normal that there would be fights about you coming home at one o'clock in the morning. Perfectly normal that you might fall asleep in the disabled toilet which I did multiple times instead of coming home, just because there's only an hour and a half left before I have to get back on the desk, right In fact, when I got married, the guys said good man, get the first one in early. So what we're talking about is how do you identify back in that moment that you're nearly at rock bottom? Because rock bottom is only discovered when you actually achieve that thing, and in traditional AA this is part of the process. They say go away until you've finally had enough.

Speaker 2: 7:19

They'll say that on phone calls as a part of AA, when you've literally excuse my language fucked your life up enough that you're willing to submit yourself to God, admit you're powerless, and then keep returning to a place every single week for the rest of your life, which is the way that system operates. Face every single week for the rest of your life, which is the way that system operates. So in that moment, if I don't have a wife who's saying that's it, I'm out the door. Now my wife might say that to me quite often.

Speaker 2: 7:47

And one day there was a text message which was like fuck you, I'll be in Sweden with our daughter. And I thought to my mind great, that means I can go and get pie faced for a week. And I did got pie faced, hung out with my pals. Some of my friends were like you should really go and get her, go on. So you know, after a week of having lots of fun, I went over and made amends and apologized and all of those things and got her back. Did you know this very, very tumultuous relationship? That's what it was.

Speaker 2: 8:15

So I think in did you know the conversation and the reason why I bring this up? Not defending it, but just painting it clearly? Because when we talk about here's a guy who fucked his life up and then he stopped drinking, 99% of people who drink switch off.

Speaker 2: 8:35

That's not me, I haven't fucked my life up yet, I'm fine, I'll carry on Right and. And so they're sleepwalking till that moment happens. How many of us actually have issues in our relationship predominantly caused by alcohol? How many of us have our worst arguments with our partners after drinking? How many of us recognized that actually, alcohol is making us feel a little bit more anxious, a little bit more depressed and not quite as productive as we are at work, and that's causing financial woes and therefore creating more arguments in our relationship? How many of us are quietly waiting until the doctor says if you have another drink, says, if you have another drink, you're dead, right Now, why wait for that? Right, let's not wait for it. So, in this whole area of prevention where we actually want to say, well, hang on a minute, I do realize that this thing is causing me a bit more trouble than I realized. I'd like to reduce it. We have to get clear on our psychological pain. We have to get clear on the truth. We have to actually go hang on a minute. This is causing issues in my relationship, hang on. This is, you know, causing me to be less productive and blah, blah, blah. I'm going to give a shot at changing my relationship with it and if things start to improve, hey presto, I found one of the issues. Right, I found one of the issues, and I think that's what's really, really important in the communication.

Speaker 2: 9:56

Now, if you want to reach Lachlan, for you right, you're on a wonderful journey of changing your relationship with alcohol. If you want your journey to inspire the most amount of people, don't talk about rock bottom. Did you not talk about like everything blew up and then you were forced to change? Just talk about it in a way that reaches the vast majority of the audience. You know what? I was feeling a bit anxious and I felt like I just wasn't being the best version of myself. I knew I had more to give. I knew I wanted to achieve more in my life and I knew that if anything was holding me back, it was alcohol and it was definitely worth testing. So that's why I'm changing my relationship with it. And now you're talking to everyone who drinks. Nobody can go away in the corner and go oh, that's not me.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Makes sense. Did you know? You were literally speaking to me just then? For those who don't, I haven't. I guess I'm not publicly talking about not drinking for the year. It's just a personal goal that I've set for myself, and I don't have a bad relationship with alcohol, I rarely drink anyway. But there's always been this thought in the back of my mind what am I capable of if I just completely cut it out for 12 months and allow myself to get up early on Sunday and not have those hangovers, even though there might be four hangovers a year? But even my wife's already said said you're not as moody like if I'll have a whiskey.

Speaker 1: 12:17

You know, we're in tennessee now, so we're in urban country I will say, before we started the podcast and you were having some technical issues, I was detecting some moodiness in there I did have to swing back a shot of whiskey to get through it, yeah, yeah, but it's such a key point and I'm glad you brought that up because I did want to talk about that A lot of the data that you guys have collected and even I know for you you got a text message before, even though it's not alcohol-related but it's because you're getting crook but it's cool that you've made the effort.

Speaker 1: 12:55

But there's all these data points and I use a Whoop, you're using an Aura and you guys also track with what was the other device that you said Aura and yeah, so there's ways that you can track that. But some of the data that you've got is like 79% better sleep, 92% feel better, 71% more productive, 81% feel less anxious and and 53 lose weight. Like when I was reading that, like if I'll have to say even just one of those would be good for most people. I know that when I'm less anxious, I absolutely crush it at work. I'm a much better husband, I'm a much better bloke. Like if I'll have, when I sleep, better same thing, my performance for work and and training, and all of that goes up and it's why am I not sleeping well or why am I such a prick?

Speaker 1: 13:43

to my wife and our relationship's falling apart. I know alcohol is a reason for that, and I personally. One of the reasons why I do tend to have a drink if I go to a social function is because of social anxiety. I just feel uncomfortable. But to the point that you mentioned before, it's like why am I feeling uncomfortable here? What can I do to become comfortable in social situations rather than just always needing the bottle? I could all have it so well.

Speaker 2: 14:08

we covered a lot of ground there and I think that the way to communicate to people because if you look at our relationship with alcohol, we are totally brainwashed and indoctrinated by society, by huge amounts of marketing every year that all this social conditioning over decades has built up these neural pathways. Since we were in nappies we have been watching right some of us were drinking then. If you're especially West Coast Scotland, I think you need to use it to rub it into your teeth. But you know we've been watching people celebrate, commiserate, congratulate with alcohol and you know the brain puts on, it puts on constantly these things that we repeatedly do and see. So it's building those neural pathways around this stuff. So all of these creations are indoctrinated in our head, and so what that means is that we are abjectly refusing to believe that the thing that we think that is the source of fun, happiness, love, good times, success, which we have spent decades building up, the belief that it is right.

Speaker 2: 15:18

You can go into your teens and and then, when you first start having a drink, it's about inclusion. If I want to be included, I need to, I need to have a drink and I need to drink well, and then you get into later, into teens and 20s, and it's about getting laid right and then about finding a partner. And then, you know, connecting with that partner happens when you're partying and having fun, and then it becomes about having fun. And then it becomes about having fun and then it becomes about having success. Right, you're like, oh wow, if I take people out for dinner and if I do these things and I drink, well, and I'm a hard drinker, if you entered into sport, right, it's about decompression and bonding and building. So again, all of this indoctrination happens over time.

Speaker 2: 15:54

So what happens is this quiet questioning comes in. You know, hey, you know, I think alcohol is causing you more trouble than you realized and you immediately hush it. No, no, no, don't be silly, don't be silly. Shh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't say that. Imagine, like you've got this trusted friend who is a loyal, trusted friend, your best pal. All the fun, all the happiness goes on with his best pal, everywhere you go, it's just fun and happiness. And then somebody says to you you know he's cheating on you. He's, you know, messing around behind your back. You're no, no, no, he would not do that. I don't believe that, and that is where most people are with our relationship with alcohol.

Speaker 2: 16:32

In the beginning we're in absolute denial that this thing is causing us.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Probably this trust have built up over time and as we start to question that more and the more podcasts put out, the more things we listen to, the more science that's going out there, the more that questioning builds.

Speaker 2: 16:47

You're like hang on, I'm building up a bit of a campaign about my best friend here. I'm not sure you're too good for me anymore, um, and I think that's that's time when you you get into a moment where you say do you know what? I think maybe we should have a break for a little bit. Let's just part ways, just for a little bit, and I want to see if life gets better. Suddenly you find that all of your life improves. Your wife stops hating you and you realize that this best friend has been whispering in your wife's ear about what a cunt you are. And now suddenly she's like oh, none of that was true, right, and so he's been running around behind your back doing all these sabotage-y things and you're like you bastard, I can't believe you were doing that. I actually wrote a letter, which again went off like wildfire.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Is this the Branson one?

Speaker 2: 17:33

When you're a kid, dear Alcohol Letter, which is a letter about hey, you know, you have been my best friend, you got me laid, you got me fired. You, you helped me find my, my partner. We've had so many times there was one comment Um you, you had me in a little town, called something or other, when I should have been at the altar. You know all of those kinds of stories. But now I've realized the truth. I've realized the truth of the impact, what you have, and it's time for us to part ways for a bit. Sorry, I went kind of divulged on that, but you were specifically asking about the level of data and I think that data is a very compelling tool for behavior change and just like a book, right, a book can be a very compelling tool for behavior change. And I think maybe in our lives, if you read voraciously, you will take a small segment of each book and implement it. Maybe 1%, maybe 5% If it's a really, really, really good book, 10% at best, right, I don't know how many thousands of books you've read Lachlan, I have literally tons. I mean, I read voraciously. Right, if I implemented 100% of those books, I'd be a billionaire many times over. I'd have six-pack abs. I mean just everything. I'd probably be already calling out to the doctor. You'd have it all. You'd be an abdonus. So information is just one thing and same as data. Data is just one thing. I think it's a very compelling tool. You're using Whoop. You're seeing your sleep. What you brought into conversation there is where we are taking data to a much, much, much higher level. So in our complete control program we use the aura ring. We also use the first beat. They're used for two different things, but I brought it up this morning because one of our doctors who works with our health team and monitor our participants 24-7, and predominantly we use it for accountability. We're also there to monitor their health and make sure they stay up, but to understand things like sleep deprivation is a significant driver for compulsive behavior. I'm sure we'll come on to that later, but this is the message from my doctor today because I'm also being monitored. Hi Ruri, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2: 19:50

I wanted to reach out as I noticed Elevated temperature deviation, possibly fever. Slightly increased resting heart rate 64 BPM. Baseline 68. Declined HRV equals 26 MS. Baseline 35 MS. Declining trend for two days Low deep sleep 7.95% Interrupted sleep, repeated waking up in the middle of sleep Just sounds like an entrepreneur's journey, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: 20:15

No, I'm kidding. I suspect early signs of infection Can't say specific causes. Based on the data I have, though, is everything all right, any symptoms? Just last night I said to my wife I don't feel great, and last week my daughter had a chest infection, so obviously I have now picked that up. I love how it goes sequentially through the house, but what is compelling about that, right?

Speaker 2: 20:37

So our team have early identified a stroke and called an ambulance in advance of that stroke happening. We have detected early onset COVID, early onset of flu-like symptoms. Just warned people about their health deviation, because we're monitoring these metrics every day. Again, that's the health side of things which we help people stay accountable. Again, that's the health side of thing which we help people stay accountable to. But on the flip side of that, the accountability side, that's what we all need. We all need our ass kicked every day. Imagine somebody's watching you 24-7. If you don't exercise for two days, we are phoning you to kick your ass. If you don't meditate for two days, you're going to get a phone call from my accountability team. Right?

Speaker 1: 21:18

We are ruthless in helping create these habits, so that's kind of taking data, but to a whole nother level, I think it's so important because I know I was reading an article the other day and they say the WHOOP data may be 75% accurate or something. But it's about what it then gets you to start thinking about what has put me in this position. It could be illness, as you've said, but for a lot of our members they're high-performing men. They do probably what you did a number of years ago, even the entrepreneur's journey where we burn the candle at both ends. So it's then looking at what are my restorative protocols, how can I get my heart rate variability back up or even breathing right? People are ventilating, just walking around because our breathing is so bad.

Speaker 2: 22:03

And alcohol.

Speaker 1: 22:04

whenever I drink alcohol, like you, see this huge spike on the whoop where it goes from like 39 beats while I'm sleeping to about 55. That's not good for me, so let's moderate that. One thing we haven't I guess I would love to dive into in a bit more is before you dive into that.

Speaker 2: 22:21

Just before you dive into that, what you said exactly there is. So I read some research um that was showing the hhc, which is a um. I could all have synthetic version of thc, um and uh, hhc. Thc obviously is a compound, part of cannabis or a part of cannabinoid and so and HHC has been helpful with sleep deprivation. So I thought, okay, well, this is interesting. I love testing out all of this stuff and everything else. So I took for those who are on YouTube, you'll be able to see this so I tried it a couple of nights and I slept amazing and I thought, wow, I've had a whole way through sleep. I didn't get up to wee If you're over 40, you'll know what that's like now and I thought this is true, I've had really good sleep.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Then I put on the Firsty Beat device and it's the world's most accurate heart rate variability monitor. You actually wear a couple of electrodes. Again, it's not really the device that you do on your own. You do it with a practitioner and that's why we have a team of people. We send it out to people. We're helping people understand the data Because, again, just seeing a chart doesn't really make any difference. You're not going to create any change, but somebody really helping you see the minutiae of the data is what will help make compelling change.

Speaker 2: 23:39

So red is sympathetic nervous system. See that where it says vape, there I had vape almost instantly. Look at that massive spike of sight and flight. Now on top of that, look at the whole evening. Not a single minute of recovery. No, green, I mean. Okay, there's a couple of tiny little lines of green, so I do not enter recovery during sleep at all.

Speaker 2: 24:03

What does what is hey, really slow down? What does that mean? This is your central nervous system and it is a core part of our compulsion, our desire to numb out. It is the main part of source. There's lots of things that happen with our central nervous system. We have parasympathetic and we have sympathetic nervous system. Our parasympathetic is think of it like parachuting down. We're going into recovery, our organs are regenerating, our brain is regenerating. We're going into neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity is the brain's ability to learn and develop and we need it at night. That's when most of our recovery happens. And in fact, now they believe that the vast majority of neuroplasticity happens during deep sleep, which is why deep sleep needs to be prioritized. It doesn't matter whether you think you got eight hours last night, oh, I had a drink and I got eight hours. No, no, no, alcohol is horrific to sleep. And again, showing this people in the data. So what it really means is, and again, what we teach people is that it's?

Speaker 2: 25:01

not just important to have recovery at night. Recovery at night is critical. Okay, if you don't get recovery at night, you're heading for serious mental illness and ill health. All sorts of things are going to come out of this right. Cancers, dementias, autoimmune diseases and disorders are the result of sleep deprivation. And we're just starting to understand the importance of good sleep and really putting that as number one on our agenda, protecting it with all of your might. There was an interesting piece of research that said that we produce cancer-beating cells predominantly at night, when we sleep, and it's from that deep and that element of recovery. And again, if you drink alcohol, you're putting yourself into fight or flight with cortisol, not producing those cells. So come back on track, rurik. God bless me with the ADHD.

Speaker 1: 25:52

No, it's very interesting.

Speaker 2: 25:56

When it comes to the parasympathetic, this is calming our nervous system down, and the most important thing we are teaching people is that we must find recovery during the day. Okay, think of it like this Stress as an element of compulsion is one of the core drivers of compulsion. Okay, if alcohol is a significant factor on you, or drinking, or, you know, vaping, or binge watching Netflix, or work addiction, which I'm sure most entrepreneurs have hand up, okay, yeah, exactly, so this is all about stress, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:36

To describe how important stress is. We had Dr Rajita Sinha, who doesn't come on the podcast, spent the last 35 years studying addiction at Yale University. She's the head of addiction research at Yale University. Two years ago she turned around to the board and she said I want to change the name of the department. And they were like what, why? She said I want to change it from Yale University Study for Addiction to Yale University Study for Stress, because addiction is just the outcome. Okay. Now if she has spent 150 peer-reviewed studies, she's an amazing person.

Speaker 2: 27:09

If she believes that it's all centered in that stress thing, then this whole parasympathetic-sympath, sympathetic this is absolutely key. It's a core part, and I want to give you an analogy for a second, because this is really easy to understand after me using lots of words and lots of complexity, which even I don't understand half the time. I'm kidding. Think of it like you know those little toy plastic cars that have got a little plastic dynamo in them. You push them along and they go further than you push. Yeah, so that's your central nervous system. Now, if you are neurodivergent, so ADD, adhd, bipolar OCD, if you're on the neurodivergent scale, you have an even more geared dynamo. Okay, so that means that the more you push it, the further it goes has significantly diminished your sleep and both.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Alcohol increasing cortisol production turns you into fight or flight all night, and sleep deprivation is very, very detrimental to our central nervous system. So now your ability to deal with stress is significantly diminished in the day because of those two factors. So you're already a wound up car and then you start winding up from the day drinking coffee. Some foods you eat are significant, significantly impactful in your central nervous system, like junk food, crap like that releases inflammation. Then you've got stress from work, stress, stress, stress. There's no break. Then you get to the end of the day and you put this little toy car that you've been putting down, expecting it to relax and for you to go to sleep, and it it goes, fuck you, and it shoots off into the distance Exactly.

Speaker 2: 28:44

And that's your brain. I can't switch off this brain. It's just absolutely running at 10 million miles an hour. What's wrong with me? I'm going to have a drink because it's amazing. And guess what?

Speaker 2: 28:52

Alcohol is amazing at switching off that brain. So we think it is good at that tool, but actually it makes that whole cycle beget itself Once again. It creates that issue in the morning and therefore you need it again, right? Alcohol begets itself, yeah, so effectively. What we teach people is, when it comes to stress, you can actually handle a much higher level of stress than you realize. And, more importantly, here's an important point If you've been regularly consuming alcohol now for a few years, right Decades, you've been increasing the production of cortisol, right, which means that you have been slowly reducing your ability to deal with stress. So it may feel like you're more stressed out now, right, but actually you've reduced how much stress you can deal with before you go into overloaded central nervous system. And so, really, what we teach people is, when you're winding up that car, when it gets to the top, just pause, pause for a minute.

Speaker 2: 29:50

Let the energy come out of that little dynamo and then wind it up again and then pause and then wind it up again and in the data this is you going from fight or flight back to parasympathetic, where you're in recovery. And doing that during the day means that when you get to the end of the day, when you put the car down, it rolls nice and gently to a stop and you can fall asleep and then you don't need an alcohol which blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That whole system doesn't run.

Speaker 1: 30:18

Yeah, it's a cycle, exactly. I guess some outcomes of that as well. Yeah, coming into my head is you're not gonna snap at your children or your wife? Yeah, maybe, instead of yeah, can that be?

Speaker 2: 30:31

yeah, we're not miracle workers. Still happens little shit sometimes, and so the kids?

Speaker 1: 30:38

oh sorry, there's a good quote where it's like there's a good quote where it's like drink never made, and so are the kids.

Speaker 1: 30:43

Oh sorry, there's a good quote where it's like there's a good quote where it's like drink never made man better, but it made him think he was better. And that's when I heard that I was like I definitely feel like that. Liquid courage is an important part you touched on. We'll go back to like not completely removing alcohol from our life shortly, but there was something that you touched on with the core drivers.

Speaker 1: 31:03

You mentioned core drivers for compulsion. You gave us the example of stress being one. What are some other of the core drivers there that people can be aware of?

Speaker 2: 31:12

Excuse me, that's my chest infection that my doctor warned me of, that I was getting this morning.

Speaker 1: 31:18

And.

Speaker 2: 31:18

I'm glad you didn't cancel. She's based in Ethiopia, which is that. How cool is that? That is amazing.

Speaker 2: 31:25

So yeah um, core drivers. Look, let's let's talk about the principle. Um, I never wanted to tell anyone ever that I was powerless to anything, because that's not true and I would never admit that that was true. Um, I did go to a couple of AA meetings. I was recommended to by a counselor and they said just go and see what it's like. And I went in and thought this is not, this is not me, it's it's not where I am, this is, I'm not like that. And then there was nothing really else. Just one second, I'm sorry. Yeah, there was nothing else really out there that I felt I resonated with.

Speaker 2: 32:01

And so in this whole journey launched One Year, no Beer helped lots of people take a break from alcohol saw the same thing again and again People could do a break, they could do six months, they could do a year, like I did, but then they would go back within a few weeks or months to like problematic drinking and I'm like, no, we need to help people in a more significant way. And that's what kind of sent me on a journey over the last eight years really, um, working with some of the top scientists out in the world studying what was going on out there in terms of compulsion, addiction, trauma, the latest research and habit change and behavior change, um, and we know, we know what drives compulsive behavior. We We've known for decades. Why aren't we helping people with that?

Speaker 2: 32:45

I don't understand why we're not starting there. Why are we starting with? You're powerless and you have a disease, or here's some medication, there's something of a broken system there, me thinks. And, by the way, remind me to come back to talk about that, um, because I will thank you. So, um, yeah, let's start with those, those things that we know drive compulsion number one. The source of most of our desire to numb out, to switch off, is rooted in our past experiences, predominantly as a child, and, I know, especially talking to men. Half the room has now run away going what the fuck.

Speaker 2: 33:25

I don't want to go back there. I've spent my whole life fucking ignoring that stuff, packing it down. I'm strong, I don't need to go back into all that stuff. Well, I just want to explain how important this is. I actually think that we are going to have an entire healthcare revolution over the next decade and I would like to be maybe. This is. I actually think that we are going to have an entire healthcare revolution over the next decade and I would like to be maybe. This is my ego speaking, probably, but I want to be one of the pioneers really flying the fag.

Speaker 2: 33:50

There is that actually almost all of it is driven by this past experience, trauma. Okay, when we look at some of that stuff and some of the research coming from Gabramate and the studies that are done out there, things like autoimmune diseases and disorders a huge amount of them are actually a direct result of unprocessed childhood trauma, these past emotions. So let me just describe this During zero to seven, our prefrontal cortex has not yet switched on and this is the area just behind our forehead here and the prefrontal cortex is used for rational decision making. So when somebody shouts at you today, you go oh, that's somebody who hasn't slept. Well, if you meditate, if you don't meditate, you probably punch the lights out, but anyway, so, and that's your prefrontal cortex rationalizing that you're safe, you're strong, that person's not going to attack you, this is all within reason, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, as a child, we don't have any of that. We don't understand. You watch what happens to a baby when a mother goes out of the room at a very early age. That baby does not think that mother's coming back, and that is a hugely impactful moment. Now you look at that and you say, well, good God, I mean literally.

Speaker 2: 35:10

Here's an example that somebody else was talking about recently. The daughter is putting on a tutu, comes new little pink tutu, super excited, runs through to dad who's busy, and goes dad, look, look, look at my new tutu. And dad goes oh, it looks good, but it looks a little bit small for you. You know, all of a sudden, that child has, you know, eating disorders for the rest of their life, right? And you're like okay, well, hang on a minute. If that's the case, we've all given our kids childhood Yep, hands up. Childhood. Giving them trauma Hands up, yep, I have, you have. If you have kids, we all have, and that's because childhood is traumatic Full stop.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Now I'm not belittling serious trauma here, right, because lots of people have very serious trauma and very serious things happen to them, but I want you to understand that we all have these experiences in the past that created emotions that we didn't know how to deal with in the time and we chose to pack those down and at the same time, we probably made some decisions about ourself that form our ego.

Speaker 2: 36:13

I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I should never be on my own, I can't trust men, I can't trust women, I can't trust anyone, anyone, whatever those things are, and they stay with us our whole lives until we actually decide to let go of them.

Speaker 2: 36:26

Yeah, this is why we use things tools by better van der kolk, peter levine, which are the world leaders today in understanding trauma and helping people shift past them which is predominantly dealing with the emotion, not the conscious conversation, which is often what happens when we go to traditional talk therapy, but actually just trying to tackle the emotion itself. It's also some of the most promising work that's happening with psychedelic therapy and why I'm a huge advocate and will be using psychedelic therapy on our programs when we can is that I really believe we can have an entire health revolution by helping people shift past some of the bullshit that we have in our past. Just two things to mention to this. If you look at that right, people come to say, well, I want to change my relationship with alcohol, and I say, well, that's great If we only achieve that.

Speaker 2: 37:16

We've only achieved 1% Because the truth is, when we start to tackle some of this stuff, we're going to help you prevent ill health. We're going to help you prevent poor mental health down the path. We're going to help you prevent things like dementia, Alzheimer's, cancers. Can I say that you won't get those things? Of course I can. There's so many other factors that are throwing into it. But if we know we can do something, why don't we take that action?

Speaker 2: 37:41

And this is my thing to people. I actually got a message today from somebody, a lady, on LinkedIn, and she said I listened to your ritual podcast. I never really thought I had trauma, but I reached out to a practitioner of somatic experience and I've discovered there's some significant things and I honestly think this is going to be life changing for me and I'm like yes, this is the work we need to help people do yeah, you could, yeah, so I was just going to say, just to that, I was very similar to you, like I've always.

Speaker 1: 38:09

I'm sorry, not to you, but to that trauma experience. I thought I was all good, life is flying, but I ended up doing like a hypnosis experience just because I was. I wonder what I can gain from it. And when I went through this five-day experience there was so much trauma. I was like bawling and recognizing stuff that I'd never thought of, ever. Yeah, explained Once I became aware of it it explained so many actions that I was making in my life and I was like, oh, my goodness, now I can fucking learn to accept that and appreciate that experience but shift the perspective on it.

Speaker 1: 38:46

And that was maybe three, four years ago. My life's completely changed from that and there's still stuff I've got to work on. But I've managed and men are really good at it. We just sort of push it down. There's always going to be something that we can work on. I 1,000% agree with you with the space of trauma and learning to experience and understand our emotions. It's going to be revolutionary, like even Joe Dispenza a lot of his, his work is. It's fascinating the studies that they've got coming out as well.

Speaker 2: 39:16

Yeah, amazing work with Joe Dispenza, exactly, and I think you know we go along the lines right Meditation, breath work, hypnotherapy, somatic experiencing these are all linked together in a way of the body and the connection between the vagus nerve and utilizing that and releasing from, you know, besservat de Kult books. The Body Keeps the Score. All of those things are aligned on that same thing. You need to give me that person's details because we use hypnotherapy as a part of the program. We're always looking for more experts to join our team and you know we are recruiting some of the top coaches out there in the world today to join this program. We have one of the lead coaches from Tony Robbins. We have coaches who've trained one-on-one with these world-class experts Gabor Mate, peter Levine so we are gathering an elite team to support people. So if somebody's had a very significant impact on you in one of these modalities that we use, definitely want to talk one of these modalities that we use to definitely want to talk yeah, I'd note of that, good man.

Speaker 2: 40:25

So trauma being number one in a significant part, and what we're seeing is that actually these two kind of lead on to each other, because number two is stress and we kind of touched base on that. Be an idiot? Yeah, that's not you, dog, dog making another guest appearance as well don't have a dog in your podcast room is basically the answer.

Speaker 2: 40:52

so, um, so the the, the trauma element, right, this past is probably not showing up as emotion. We don't really walk around crying some of us do. At some points you can have a release, you can get to really the wit's end, you can feel like you're overwhelmed. Depression comes in things like that unable to cope. Alcohol really creates more of that feeling of unable to cope because it begets itself um, yeah and um and then. But this, this, so this past experience doesn't really show up as emotion. It shows up as a very busy brain, um, it shows up as very critical, very um, um, self-sabotaging brain, very loud, self-critic, and so that's also impactful on our central nervous system. So again, that's debilitating our ability to deal with stress. So when you come in with that stuff, we have to do that work first, and this is why this is something really important to work to remember. No amount of conscious work, no amount of control, self-discipline process, no amount of using tools, habit, habit, surface stuff will ever beat a self-sabotaging subconscious. Yeah, and this is why we have to start with the work back there first. Okay, so otherwise we're just putting plasters on top of problems. So the next thing we talk about is stress, and I've highlighted how important it is to understand that, and we use devices to help people understand their stress. In fact, you can see from the many, many Trustpilot reviews and many, many feedback from people, they talk about being able to handle a much higher level of stress. And I say to people all the time, like what impact would it have on your business, on your career, if you were able to handle a much higher level of stress calmly? Right, that would be a game changer. Right, that would just be so huge. And so that's what happens when you start building in stress resilience tools and you start seeing it in the data and knowing yourself, right, knowing thy body. Hang on a minute, I'm supercharged here. I'm going into that hyperactive level where I know I can't come back down. Now is my time to take a little break.

Speaker 2: 43:04

Interestingly, you know, in this whole addiction research part is it's very, very, very common, right? So trauma being one of the big things that creates neurodivergence, add, adhd, that dysregulation in the central nervous system drives this desire to numb out and avoid, and what we do is we get linked into work and we find a way to get extremely busy, avoiding feeling. And guess what happens? If people are able to handle a high level of stress and they are really busy, getting busy they become super successful. So this is why the high achievers and the people that we are talking to in the majority of our programs business owners and people they all identify with maybe I am a bit ADD, maybe I am ADHD. I have wondered if I'm bipolar, you know things like that because actually these things are all intrinsically linked, sorry. So just touching on some of the other core drivers, because I think it's important for people to kind of reflect on these.

Speaker 2: 44:07

The next real driver is like relationships. Our closest relationships to us are a significant driver of compulsion If they're broken. You've been through a divorce or lost a loved one, right, we can't change that, but we can change the feelings and it's working with those feelings that we have around it. That will reduce compulsion. And you know, if you're going through a divorce, right, and you're like, well, this is just going to be extremely tumultuous right now, then maybe it's important for you to do the trauma work and calm down the stress in other areas so you're not going to be so reliant on compulsive behavior, because not all of these things are going to be in balance all the time. Don't be ridiculous. We don't go and sort these things out and they're all in green and you can move on happily ever after. Right, they're a constant work, they're a constant balance, but at least knowing exactly what they are is important.

Speaker 2: 44:54

So connection to others and around us is really important and many, many, many people go in search of stopping drinking and then they avoid their social circle, they cancel seeing their friends, they know they get too much peer pressure, they hide out at home.

Speaker 2: 45:08

Well, guess what? That creates disconnection, and unless you're a sociopath, we cannot be disconnected. So guess what it does. It brings you back to the fold, because the only way you know how to feel connected to your group of people who are your friends and all that stuff, is to drink again. And this is the importance of creating connection out with this getting around groups of people who you can have fun or be successful or release dopamine through sport or whatever it is, who are not choosing to drink, and that's building those connections out with. So various other areas, emotional regulation, mental health, mental health etc. That really are the core drivers. But ultimately, what we're saying are these are all things that you can change, and when you do change these things like, first of all, get awareness of them, and we use data and technology to help you get awareness and then, once you start changing them if not change them significantly the vast majority of your drinking slash compulsion will evaporate, because they are the drivers.

Speaker 1: 46:08

And many, many, many. It sounds so simple when you're putting all of that into place. The hard part, I would imagine for a lot of people, is understanding they're not powerless. And when you realize that it can be quite confronting because what's the next step for me? What if I don't like who I am or what if I don't want to accept those things about myself? From my own personal experience, going through and I guess, dealing with trauma and some of the dumb shit I did when I was younger was having to accept those versions of myself and go okay, that's where I was at this version of myself wouldn't have done that, but I can't change that.

Speaker 1: 46:45

I can only move forward, which means, once again, I need to be aware of all the stuff that I want to be in control of, because we're in control of everything. There's some things maybe we don't need to focus on right now, but the areas that you just mentioned there, like connection, stress, all of those things are such powerful things, but you don't necessarily change them overnight. I remember and we probably spoke about this when we first had a podcast but when I got into business, I wanted to be a millionaire and I read a book and I was like I need to hang around millionaires. That's going to be my fast track, right, I'm going to be able to learn all their tips and tricks and language that they use, but millionaires at that point. Or the ones that I wanted to hang around language that they use, but millionaires at that point or the ones that I wanted to hang around didn't want to hang around with me.

Speaker 1: 47:32

So the perspective was I could say I'm not good enough and just stay there, or I could go. Who do I need to become, what do I need to be in control of and how do I grow through that to become that version of myself? And ultimately that started for me with alcohol. So I can't be doing recreational drugs like I used to and I can't be binge drinking, because that's just not going to allow me to become the man that I wanted to be. And it was confrontational because I had to recognize I was a bit of a pig back in the day. But that's, you know.

Speaker 2: 48:01

that's a foundational step to grow and you're only going to look back at the journey and be proud of that amazing, and I think that's the behavior change comes from either having enough pain or enough pleasure, um, and when, when you're working in prevention. So you know, oh, I think alcohol is causing me more trouble than I realize. Uh, but it would be much easier for me to just carry on as it is because that's what everyone else is doing. So it's actually really really fucking hard to change your relationship with alcohol in society today. It's really hard. And so if we want to get clear on the pain, this is about sitting down and writing down. Like, what is this costing me? You know the truth, truth. How often am I hungover? What percentage of me is showing up at work on monday? What, if I'm truthful, like if 100%, is me out there crushing it, smashing out of park, you know, just all fully aligned, just like that guy or gal? Then, um, if that's 100%, what percentage of you is showing up on Monday?

Speaker 1: 49:07

What about on Tuesday? What about on Wednesday?

Speaker 2: 49:09

And what about at home? If I was to bring your kids onto the call or have a conversation with your kids and say what impact is his drinking, his dad's drinking, mum's drinking having on your relationship with your parents? What would they say? What about your, your partner, if you just get them quietly on their own and say what impact is is their drinking having on you or your relationship? What would they say? What's the worst thing about is her drinking, you know. So as you start to get really clear, you start to draw a picture of truth, not the stuff that's sat back in your subconscious. This is the truth. Here's the thing. What happens if you don't do this?

Speaker 2: 49:53

Well, I think the vast majority of us, many of us, sleepwalk to a problem, we sleepwalk to something breaking. We're almost waiting for it quietly. We're waiting for you know to get caught drink driving or to have you know somebody say and we don't need to wait for that. So inside here, I remember when I, when we published our book, the wonderful lady, the owner of the publisher, pam McMillan, you know, sat down with her and she said you know, she's in her 60s and she said out of all of my friends, I'm the only one who put my. Sat down with her. And she said you know, she's in her 60s. And she said out of all of my friends, I'm the only one who put my foot down with my husband about his drinking. And out of all of my friends, I'm the only one whose husband isn't either dead or has a very significant issue or health problems because of alcohol.

Speaker 2: 50:42

And in a way, I speak to an awful lot of men who say, oh, my wife is good as gold. You know, she doesn't, really, she doesn't mind, she doesn't mind and I'm like, okay, but she's an enabler. Then she is helping you make this problem worse and really what you need is even more to get clear Like, come on, don't you think you could be better? And, in essence, on the other side of it, if you sit listening to this and go, ah yeah, I just I really don't think. You know, it's not for me, or I don't drink that much, or whatever it is. What I just say to people is why not give it a shot? I mean, it's not going to cost you very long to find out. Maybe 30 days, maybe 60 days of really going all in on changing your relationship with alcohol. You know, applying some of the things I've talked about here, um, and if you don't feel better and your life doesn't start to feel better and things improve well, I'd be absolutely gobsmacked.

Speaker 2: 51:42

But, it will exactly, and then I think you've got your answer. And I feel this way about everything. By the way, if there's something you're regularly consuming that you feel that you need and caffeine is up there, and sweets and sugar, and social media and your phone if there's something you feel you need, why not just try a break with it? Because I think by having a break, you actually see that this best friend of yours is actually a toxic asshole.

Speaker 1: 52:08

And many, and by having a break you actually see that this best friend of yours is actually a toxic asshole. I couldn't agree more with that, Even if your life is good. When I first did a three-month stint off a couple of years ago, I didn't realize how good I wasn't feeling. I didn't feel terrible. The mental clarity and the energy and the focus was phenomenal.

Speaker 1: 52:26

But the mental clarity and the energy and the focus was phenomenal, and so now the exact reason why I'm doing the 12 months now is I don't have an issue, my energy is awesome, life's going well, but I'm just curious to see what it feels like, and every day I'm not having a drink, I'm starting to enjoy that more and I'm noticing my standing out is just remembering people's names.

Speaker 1: 52:47

It's phenomenal. And my brother-in-law because there's six of us who aren't drinking, my brother-in-law has dropped 10 kilos. His memory is through the roof, and this is literally since just before New Year's right. So it's not that long a time, just yet. So the benefits are through the roof. I just want to be mindful of time. One last question Changing the relationship with alcohol. Just want to be mindful of time. One last question the change in the relationship with alcohol doesn't mean completely cutting it out.

Speaker 1: 53:12

A lot of people go. I just want a Shiraz, I want to drink at my wedding, all of these sorts of things and I think one thing that I heard you mention on the Rich Roll podcast as well, was that it's like there is benefit in drinking right, there's social interactions and stuff like that. You still drink personally, obviously. I'd love to quickly get your overview on that and many 100.

Speaker 2: 53:35

Well, first of all, um, after decades of research, and also myself, I did a year alcohol free. Now I drink as much as I want, whenever I want. I just usually choose not to drink and I've removed all the associations. I don't go for steak and have red wine. I used to always, but now I'm predominantly carnivore, so that would mean I'd be drinking wine three meals a day, but anyway, I was wondering what you were drinking before Water.

Speaker 2: 54:04

I'm sipping away on red wine whilst on this podcast. Do as I say, not as I do. No. So I think you know, after decades of research, tens of thousands of people all over the world, where we'd asked people what would you like your relationship with alcohol to look like to the wide public out there, 6% want to stop drinking and almost everything out there is about sobriety and stopping drinking and how amazing stopping drinking is. You're only talking to 6% of the market. It's not what people want. And because of that, because there isn't enough conversation about hey, let's reduce, let's just cut back a little bit, why not in 2024, just change your relationship with alcohol a little bit. Like what would look that for you? Because there's not enough of that conversation. People do nothing and so they do nothing and things continue to get worse.

Speaker 2: 54:53

So with everything, we're a preventative health company. I believe that prevention should always swim upstream and keep going upstream and keep going upstream so we can help people earlier and more if we focus on control. That's the first thing. The second thing with that is so the conversation there is control. People come into our program complete control because they are looking for control. By the end of it, 93 percent of people choose to carry on alcohol free after the program. Not forever, right, but they're saying that's it, I'm I'm done now. They wanted control, they came in for control, but when we help them see the truth and this is really really, really important, really important, Okay, the truth is, first of all, we have to go to town on this self-sabotage layer driven by these past experiences that are running amok inside all of our head. Okay, we have to go to town on trauma. The second thing is that really to help people understand and see, in data and with clarity, that actually everything that they want, everything they want at their core of who they are as a human being. I'm talking about, hey, when people are standing around your grave zone, what are they saying about you? What's your impact? How did you show up? Right, when you get super clear on who you believe you are as a human being, the impact that you want to have and that what you see, is that everything that you want literally everything that you want to be happy to what you see is that everything that you want, literally everything that you want to be happy to be healthy, to be successful, to have a good marriage, to be loved and adored by your children, to be successful, to have lots of wonderful friends, to leave a legacy, to have longevity, to have peak performance and optimal health later in life. Everything that you want is actually being taken away by alcohol, and that's the truth. And when you show people that there's no coming back from that, they will never be the same.

Speaker 2: 56:37

Luke, a well-known e-commerce entrepreneur in the UK, came to our program and he said you cannot unlearn the things you learn in complete control. And so I like to describe myself as a white, slightly prettier version of Morpheus from the Matrix, and I'm standing in front of people with the two pills and I'm like, once you take this, there is no going back. And instead of going to a horrible, dark, miserable world with robots, we actually go to a much nicer world. So a slightly different comparison. World with robots, we actually go to a much nicer world. So slightly different comparison. So sorry, the element of control is really powerful.

Speaker 2: 57:12

I want to give one more example here. So I had an ex-pro NFL athlete come on the program. This guy, total legend. He's built a large private equity business in the US. Complete machine, 12 times Ironman champion. I mean a monster. And in the original conversation. He's like you know, Ruri, I don't have that much of a problem with alcohol. Like I can do a year alcohol free, no bother. I've done it twice, that's not a problem for me. But when I do have a drink it's like I've won the Superbowl and I disappear for three days and I can't afford that. Like I've got a respectable business family, like I just can't afford this. If you can help me tackle this then I'll be gobsmacked. Now he took quite a long time to sign up. There was lots of umming and ahhing and he wanted to check everything over. You know lots of people.

Speaker 2: 57:58

Early days in the program there was a lot of skepticalness. I'm going to read out the two things. I'm going to read out the two things. Six months later he sends me this program. Now he always said that the biggest issue for him was when he got together with his brothers, With his brothers and with his ex-NFL athletes. That's when it just went mad. So Thanksgiving was a great example. I rented an entire boutique hotel for my extended family 26 people, Lucky guy. Being with my brothers is always a huge trigger. So I packed a few cases of athletic brewing to keep on ice.

Speaker 2: 58:26

I went alcohol-free Wednesday, allowed myself to drink regular beer with my brothers Thursday, but shut it down at midnight before things got crazy. Then went back to alcohol-free Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I worked out every day and spent tons of quality time with my kids, mum, siblings, nieces and nephews. It was a blast. I honestly think learning control is 10,000% more powerful than quitting altogether. Condemning yourself to a lifetime of abstinence is simply too daunting for most people. Allowing myself to have occasional cheat days has been a huge part of my success. That was six months after the program, a year after the program, and we're recording this on Tuesday, just after Super Bowl on Sunday, and he sends me this message with this image here. I'm just showing you up there. Yeah, that was on the Super Bowl. He says day two in Vegas for the Super Bowl. What have you done to me With five question marks and there's a picture of a salad along with water and a Guinness. Zero, yes.

Speaker 1: 59:26

Yeah, that is awesome.

Speaker 2: 59:28

And this is the thing is that people don't want to stop drinking, and so we have to meet them where they are Condemning. Abstinence does not equal control. In fact, abstinence on its own can often make your relationship with it worse. We've proven this many times. Just aversion theory? No, you can't have that. Here's an example, lachlan. Many times, just aversion theory? No, you can't have that. Here's an example, lachlan. Don't think of a pink elephant? Whoops, right. So that's a very simple, not quite related example, but this is what happens in aversion therapy trying to avoid something. So the solution is not abstinence on its own, but here's the thing A period of abstinence gives you the tools that you need right Energy, clarity, productivity, authenticity all of the clarity and the desire that you need to do the work, which will give you control, and that's the key of helping people in a more significant way. I think that the whole flip around here is to say to people hey, you can have a take it or leave it relationship with alcohol?

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

You can. You're going to have to change some things in your life and we can take you on that journey right. I don't know how long that journey is for you. It depends on where you are on this sliding scale. At the end of the day, if you are currently a severe alcoholic sorry, I use that word because a lot of other people do, but it's not a term used by the scientific community anymore. We should really be using severe alcohol use disorder you could be a very severe alcohol use disorder, be homeless, you know, in a significant childhood trauma.

Speaker 2: 1:01:06

Okay, well, that there's a long road and a lot of work that we're going to have to do in order for you to get there. But do I believe it's possible with every fiber of my being? And to tell people that you're going to be powerless for the rest of your life because of a disease is a fucking lie. So I don't mean to be overenthusiastic with that, but my version means that we can heal addiction. The other version means that we can't, and I don't want to believe in that reality and also it's not the truth anywhere else in the world.

Speaker 2: 1:01:39

So why, would it be truthful with this?

Speaker 1: 1:01:43

It's a great way to finish. I could not agree anymore with that. I think when people accept that they can't change where they're at, it's just such a powerless position and you want to live in hope and you want to live in productivity to moving towards that version of yourself. So I love what you guys are doing. Where can people find out more? Condemning?

Speaker 2: 1:02:01

you All over the interwebs.

Speaker 1: 1:02:03

One year.

Speaker 2: 1:02:04

they'll be here, you'll find us. You will find me, rory Fairbairns. If anyone else has that name, I'll be gobsmacked. I feel for them already.

Speaker 2: 1:02:13

Just that has been traumatic. Do you know how many times I've had to spell that out on a phone call, good Lord? How many hours of my life. So, rory Fairbairns, on things like Instagram, if you want to reach out to me, you can email me, ruri, at oneyearnobeercom it's complicated spelling, so good luck with that. But we're on oneyearnobeercom, on Facebook, instagram, all the usual LinkedIn putting out plenty of free content.

Speaker 2: 1:02:38

I'm heard from thousands of people all the time about how we've inspired them and helped them change their relationship with alcohol. You can find our podcast, so I bring some of the world's most experienced and most relevant scientists from Yale, stanford, from UCL, various wonderful institutions around addiction, trauma, behavior change, habit science onto our podcast to help people. There's tons of free resources. If you want to come on through a journey which is going to help you significantly increase your business, increase productivity, help you get on top of relationships, improve many, many areas of your life in a short period of time, because you just want to get this done, then come and check out our Complete Control Program. It is revolutionary and I'm super excited to get this out to the world more, and thank you, lachlan, for helping me do that.

Speaker 1: 1:03:30

Thank you for jumping on here. It's so inspiring to see how far the movement's come since we spoke last as well, and I'm very inspired to continue seeing it and hopefully we'll touch base over the next couple of years and you'll be continuing to empower and change people's lives.

Speaker 2: 1:03:47

Amazing. Thank you so much for helping.