Tackling Mental Health Stigma | Sam Webb #565

Sam Webb, co-founder of Livin, and I delve into the profound impact of suicide on our mental health advocacy. In this heartfelt discussion, we explore our emotional journey through grief, the societal pressures on expressing pain, and the power of community support. 

We also discuss transitioning identities and how controlled stress in training can build resilience, offering insights into overcoming life's challenges. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:51

Have you ever wondered when it's time to move on or how to communicate better about your mental health? Well, you're in the right place. Welcome back to the man that Can Project. My name is Lachlan Stewart and today we have an awesome guest, sam Webb. He's not just an actor and a TEDx speaker. He is also the co-founder of Livin, a mental health organization that is breaking the stigma around mental health.

Speaker 1: 1:15

I've been mates with Sam since around 2015. We actually ran an event together in Brisbane, and following his journey and watching it evolve and the impact that he's had on not only his own mental health but mental health around Australia and then branching out into the United States has been nothing short of remarkable. So I'm excited to finally have him on the show to be able to dive a little bit deeper. This episode does come with a strong warning we will be talking about suicide and mental health and mental illness. So if yourself or anyone that you know is struggling, make sure you please reach out.

Speaker 1: 1:48

This could be triggering. So if you're in that position, I would highly recommend skipping this episode. So we're going to be talking about how to communicate better around your mental health and some lived experience where Sam had a mate take his life that led him to co-founding Libin, amongst a heap of other things. We record this episode from LA, where we're both living in America now. So buckle up for this episode. It is going to be an insightful one and a very, very inspiring one so.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Sam welcome to the show, mate. I've been trying to organize this one for a number of years. I've been following your journey since we first connected back in I think it was 2015.

Speaker 1: 2:25

We ran that event at functional yeah yeah, I got that and that was the first time I was inspired by the work you were doing with living and the story that you had behind that. So you've been on a massive journey in the last decade. Like it's crazy how quickly time's gone. Both over here in la at the moment you're doing some cool stuff, but I'd love to give the audience a bit of a background around who you are, why you started living, and then we can dive into where we're headed now yeah, mate for sure, and you're dead right about this last 10 years it's been a quick 10 years.

Speaker 2: 2:54

It's. It literally goes so fast and it makes you wonder. You know what's most important in life. And and it's kind of the segue which I'll speak about after I share about why living started. Um hi, my name is sam webb, I am, I was one half of living. So, with living started in uh, 2013, september 15, 2013, after I lost a very good friend, or we lost a very good friend to suicide, dwayne Lally.

Speaker 2: 3:22

From an outside, looking in and I'm talking about it now because it's been 10 years. Time, as you mentioned, goes very quick. There's been a lot of time to reflect, there has been a lot of time to decompress, to think about things a lot more and now that I'm kind of stepped away from living formally, I'm able to really appreciate the journey and what it taught me and what Dwayne's death taught me. And, looking back so I was with Dwayne the night that he took his life. Looking back, so I was with duane the night that he took his life and the impact that his death had on an unquantifiable amount of people changed everybody's lives and, as I mentioned, from the outside looking in, duane had it all. He was the life of the party. He was very charismatic. He was. People just were drawn to him like he was. It was a. It was a kind of like an alpha male guy. He was a boxer, played rugby league. Growing up we played touch footy together. We always versed each other, were very competitive and you know he would have been the last person that you would have thought that would have been struggling with anything mentally, let alone suicidal thoughts Like there is just no way. If you would explain that to someone, it would have been like are you out of your mind? Like what are you talking about? That is just you're talking shit. Dwayne, he's playing very well, like most males do, especially.

Speaker 2: 4:52

I can talk from people in Australia and I think the culture is quite similar here in the US. Do, especially, I can talk from people in australia and I think the culture is quite similar here in the us. Uh, men, as men, we, we hide our vulnerabilities, our weak spots. Uh, we hide them extremely well, very easy.

Speaker 2: 5:06

We try and pretend things are okay. We smile through the tough times. We look at people and we're like nah, man, I'm sweet, I'm cool, everything's great, I've got my shit together, but behind closed doors, very different and unbeknownst to me at the time. I knew that Dwayne had suffered with some kind of mental health challenge I didn't know to the extent of how serious it was and Sam Webb, at that moment in my life of 2013, I was actually just coming out of a pretty big relationship breakdown. I actually lived in America in 2012 and I moved home and I was on antidepressant, anti-anxiety medication for five or six years for my own mental health challenges, but I still, for someone who had experienced it myself, I couldn't really tell it in someone else and I certainly couldn't really articulate it enough.

Speaker 1: 6:01

So that it makes sense if that makes sense, yeah, definitely, and I was just like I never spoke about my challenges ever.

Speaker 2: 6:09

I never went to speak to someone other than a psychologist or my girlfriend at that time, briar but I never or my mum, or the people I really trusted right in my life the people I really trusted or a mental health professional. Yet I didn't know the warning signs and symptoms. I only knew it for myself because you're so invested in how you're feeling. You're trying to escape those feelings right. Dwayne suffered with bipolar and depression for a number of years. I didn't know how severe it was until the night that I was with him and I remember Dwayne saying to me Webby, webby, webby, come over mine. So I was meant to catch up. We were meant to do a double date Him, his girlfriend at the time. They were together for six or seven years and he tried to set her friend up with me and we'd go and do a dinner and it was all going to be a great night. Those dinner plans got cancelled. Dwayne's like you're coming to my house having a little party. The ball was on, he was a big Bulldogs fan and it's just the close friends of his place in Palm Beach. I remember it like it was yesterday. So I come on over and I'm like yeah, sweet, get, they picked me up. Headed to his house, dwayne was the happiest. He answered the door, I remember in a TNC shirt with a beanie on. His Converse is on. He's like come on in. He's happy as just like any other time, very happy, had a couple of drinks. The night was great. And not long later he's like during the night, he's like where are you coming? I want to talk to you. So I was talking to him in his room and, out of nowhere, dwayne opened up to me about his mental health problems and on this level I didn't even know what to expect. I'm like what do you want to chat about? Yeah, we're having a chat, just a boy, a lad's chat, just him and I. And he's like Webby, I've you know, no one really knows this. But yeah, I've tried to take my life before and I was like in my mind I'm thinking why is he telling me this? Why is this getting told to me now, when we're under the influence? And then he's like not once, but twice. I've tried to take my life twice before and I'm like what do I say? My mind's going on a mile an hour. What should I say what's right, what's wrong? What would I want to hear in this situation if I was in his shoes? I'm thinking what should I say? What's right, what's wrong? What would I think in this situation? What would I want to hear in this situation if I was in his shoes? I'm reassuring Dwayne man. What do you mean? Talk to me, bro. I'm here, you're in safe space. And he's like yeah, I tried to take my life before twice and I'm the kind of guy that would do it Like no suicidal, and they get down, I'm fucking gonna kill myself.

Speaker 2: 8:43

All this stuff that people say which doesn't help with the stigma, and um, he's like but I'm kind of pretty twisted, like I'd probably be one of the guys to do it, and I'm like I'm sitting there thinking what do I say next? I'm listening, I'm trying to listen as best as I could, I'm trying to listen as best as I know you know in that moment, having a few drinks and whatever else and I try to reassure him. You're okay, man. Like is everything good? Like, where are you at now? No, webby, I'm fine. I just want to share it with you how I was feeling. Like it was a lot. I could never do it. I could never let my family down. I never let my mum and dad down because they were so close to his mum. His whole family was he's. Like I can never do it and but I just want to let you know where I'm at. Like I'm pretty twisted like that, like I've got the balls to do that, if, if I needed to. But I wouldn't do it again.

Speaker 2: 9:23

It was like yeah, I, I, I made, I don't even know how to say it. I was like what do I say? Trying to listen, I'm reassuring him. You know, don't ever. If you're ever feeling low in your life and at a point where you feel like that is an option, you can call me anytime, you can phone me. I don't care if it's at 3 am, whatever time of the night. You've got a thousand people who would line up at a door waiting to help you. You've got your family, who are the best things ever and we're all here to support you. Ah no, I'm sweet. I promise everything's good. I'd never do it. Everything's life's great.

Speaker 2: 10:55

Um, we started talking about different medications. He was on and I'd been on some of them in the past and you know, I started sharing about how I'd felt in the past and that you know I'd been on mental health medication for a while, up and down, and met, you know, anxiety and mild depression for a number of years. And we were just talking, man, and it was at the end of it. I'm like you're sure you're okay, man, remember, you can always call me, no matter. And it was at the end of it. I'm like are you sure you're okay, man? Remember, you can always call me, no matter what.

Speaker 2: 11:17

And I was at this party with him and I sat there and we were having a hell of a time. I was with him basically all night because I knew the other people at the house and they're his friends and my friends, but I wasn't as close to them and so I remember the last thing he said to me. I left that room and that was a lot of conversation, a lot of weight that we probably both wore. I left and I remember sitting at the front door that night. There's a big couch right next to the front door, front door's to my right. I'm sitting there with this girl and we're just chatting, having a good night and party's going on Not too loud music, people having D&Ms, conversation this is a long-winded one.

Speaker 1: 11:55

I'm giving you the full story.

Speaker 2: 11:56

Mate, I'm very interested in this and I see his girlfriend at the time come out for me. I'm like, what's he trying to do? Dwayne's going to kill himself. He just told me he's going to kill himself and I think he's going to do it this time. And I sat down. I'm like, well, where is he? I was just like, oh, let me talk to him. And he didn't come past me because I was having a conversation that we had, like my eyes were dialed in and I didn't see him. Come, she goes, he's escaped. He ran out the back door or whatever, and I was looking around the house everywhere for him. I couldn't find him anywhere. She's like, he said he was going to do it and he's done this before, but I feel like this time is for real. He's going to do it. He said he was going to do it. He promised all my life he's going to do it. And I'm like and so, mate I?

Speaker 2: 12:41

I was pretty drunk at the stage and I remember jumping in the car with with the girls by the, and we drove halfway around the gold coast that night looking for him from palm beach and no, no responses on the phone. I was texting please answer, bro. Don't do anything stupid. Man, I'm here. We have said this great conversation. I'm here for you, I'll listen to you, I'll do whatever I can to get you the support that you need to get back on track.

Speaker 2: 13:03

Your mom, his mom, was trying to like we learned her and I didn't want to freak her out and she called him. He didn't answer. I'm like, fuck, this isn't good. When he's not answering his mom's calls, things. This isn't good. No one was closer than him and his mom were the um, nobody and but and but. He was so tight with his whole family like they they were first in his life, always.

Speaker 2: 13:25

And, man, I remember going to the palm beach, the the bridge there still tell about to drive and sam did a u-turn under the bridge, drove back out. And, man, it was the next day. Him and Sam did a U-turn under the bridge, drove back out. And, man, it was the next day him and I went to watch at the Shark Bar, miami Shark Bar, canelo Alvarez versus Floyd Mayweather. He's a huge. He was golden gloves in his prior boxing days and he loved fighting Like he was a professional athlete in that regard.

Speaker 2: 13:55

And I'm like he's going's gonna show up like I couldn't sleep that night, thinking the worst but not trying to think the worst. Yeah, so I don't think the worst. He's gonna be okay, but he told you it's very heavy. I hope that wasn't quite the help. And then, mate, I remember seeing faces of duane on facebook and on Instagram. Please, or let the police or let us know if you've seen him around anywhere.

Speaker 2: 14:19

And I knew this started to get serious. This was like there was no, he wasn't coming to shop. I didn't get any missed calls. The next day there was an answer in my call was nobody, nobody's. The message is nothing. I'm like this is super fucking weird, mate. I got a call at 5 o'clock. I think that afternoon.

Speaker 2: 14:38

That day was the slowest day of my life, I reckon. Just thinking, like what's still in my mind? Where is he? Is anyone down him? Surely he's just going to turn up. There's no way he would have taken his life. Like, there's just no way. He just told me that he would never have done it and looked at me in the eye and promised me he was fine and he had so much to live for. And you know, the future was looking bright and promising for him and we were talking about the future and I remember a call at five o'clock saying Dwayne had been found dead.

Speaker 2: 15:09

And, man, I remember where I was. I was sitting on my seat in my apartment in Burley Waters and I was eating a pizza actually at the time and I grabbed it and I just threw it and I just and I didn't want to believe what I just heard Dwayne had been found dead, he'd taken his own life. And I said there's no way that's happened. Like I was in shock. So I got back in my car on a Sunday night and I drove up to the hospital that's where his family were and his close friends and I didn't believe it until I seen it. Like I had to see this in my own eyes to actually believe what I was hearing was true. And, mate, I remember being in the viewing room and, like warning from one listening, um, and this is pretty heavy content, so do it, do it, do I? Uh, I'll do a warning content, warning at the start.

Speaker 2: 15:57

Um, man, the moment they they wound back those curtains. I saw a Dwayne there. He was just lying there, same clothes except the beanie, same everything, and I was just fucking with him, like not long ago, not even 24 hours ago, like we were just having a conversation, the fact that I do. Did I say something wrong? Did I not give him the support that he needed? And man, he's just. He was dead, like he was in front of me. It was just.

Speaker 2: 16:27

I've never, I'll never, be able to erase that moment in my life. And it's not about me, obviously, but his family man, what I saw in his family. They're never going to be the same Like I've seen them over the years. Not as much as I'd like, because I feel like at times, you know, being around the family and seeing them it kind of reminds them. You know, when you're like certain moments. He was the last person to have a chat with my son. It's pretty sad.

Speaker 2: 16:59

Do you feel any guilt? You know, I felt so much guilt, man, for so many years, and I think that's what the relentless passion and the purpose behind setting living up was. You know, duane used to always say we're living, man, we're living, and for anyone listening, that's that's the segue to living. He always used to say we're living and I was like we have to do something about this and during that time, man, I was like my wheels are falling off and I'd started sliding deep back into severe, like dark times in my life and I was trying to stay afloat by trying to do something well and good for the community in Duane's name, with Casey and a few other people. It was monumental help. I couldn't have done it without anyone. We couldn't have done it without each other. So I'm sitting there.

Speaker 2: 17:42

We started living long story short short and I started with doing mental health awareness and suicide prevention initiatives, you know, like breaking the stigma around mental health. What did we have or didn't we have? I should say at the moment in our life that we would have liked to have had or we could have had. That may have saved this situation and stop this from happening. And yeah, we asked duane's family for permission. We're like we really want to do something in duane's honor and his legacy. Can we start something? And they we sold shirts at his wake and they all sold duane's face and he had this song for the son of the from his avia right on the shirt and they sold and we got the money and duane's family donated the money to us and said do something cool with it. So we literally had like I think they'd raised like $4,000 and we used that and turned that into living and that was a huge process of starting a charity, and that's probably a whole other conversation.

Speaker 2: 18:36

Pitching to a law firm on the Gold Coast can you take us pro bono, like crying in front of them and just going, please? We want to do this, we want to save lives and so much support. Live in Woodland, where you are today, and I say all the time without everyone. Everybody's been involved equally as much as I've been involved, and man, I mean. Dwayne's death was a wake-up moment for not only me but for a lot of people in our community and I wasn't even though I've lost people in my life prior to even Dwayne passing away. That member spoke about it and talked to you about it at the start of this episode. I wasn't really aware about it.

Speaker 2: 19:13

We weren't aware about the statistics that surround mental health and suicide prevention and suicide in general until we started working it with Liver and we started doing the charity and started speaking at schools and going to workplaces and started really diving into the into the statistics of the facts and speaking to mental health professionals, we realized that this was a big problem, and not just in australia. It's a big problem all over the world, mainly here, obviously, australia, america, all these western societies, but um dwayne's death, yeah, it affected thousands and thousands of people.

Speaker 2: 19:47

You can't put a number on someone's life and, obviously, if I could take everything back, including that event the night and all the work that's been done in the interim between 2013 and up until today, I would in a heartbeat. But you can't do that, yeah, and we live and we learn and yeah, it was fucking terrible man as well you guys really I still remember when they've been sort of started showing up everywhere a lot of our friends.

Speaker 1: 20:14

I grew up in toowoomba but was playing footy down the coast and everything like that. So it just started popping up everywhere and I first was, uh, buddy I grew up with committed suicide when I was 14. It was on the front page of the Toowoomba Chronicle. No one spoke about it, no one ever asked if I was all right or if other people were all right, and I just remember keeping that paper under the bed and you'd pull it out and cry about it, but then as a bloke you're like can't show any feelings about that, can't talk about it. And then it started happening more and more. Since you know, since we left school, we've lost like nine mates now from school, which is insane.

Speaker 1: 20:48

But what you guys did with Libby and there's a lot of other charities and organisations doing stuff now, but you sort of paved that way, especially for why I related to it was like ex-football boys doing it and generally were the ones that find different ways to deal with our emotions partying, etc. So more people started talking about it. And then, um, the learning, the next tools like how do you communicate? How do you, I guess, sit down, have a mate open up to you, how do you know whether it's a real red flag, all those sorts of things which, when you sit there learning you know whether it's mental health, first aid or anything like that.

Speaker 1: 21:22

You're like why we call this at school, I think just, or it just, it's human connection, right. And then you start recognizing the importance of it was the health professionals. But we also start recognizing the importance of us as individuals. I feel a lot of people don't feel they're qualified to help. Yeah, exactly, but at the end of the day, it's like person to person. Building relationships is part of that, and finding purpose and meaning and making others and, if not yourself, feel valued and feel heard can go a long way as well.

Speaker 2: 21:56

Definitely, man, definitely I think, yeah, you don't have to be professional to save someone's life. Yep, well, that firsthand, and I'm sure you have to with all the great work you've done over the years and the conversations you've had. Man, I mean, yeah, it's mental health is paramount and it's definitely something that people talk about a lot more these days. It's still very complex. Mental health is complex. Brains are complex. Humans are complex. Man, they not simple. We're not just simple three-dimensional characters. That's not what we are. It's very complex and what I've learned, mostly over the last 10 years before I stepped down from living, was that there are a lot of people that you can save and you can help a lot of people. There are always heavy people that fall through the cracks, unfortunately, and I've, casey and myself, and the community that we started living with, we're like we're going to have a zero policy game here, zero suicide game. No one's dying ever again. We're going to fucking save the world. We were very wrong really quick, because it's the great work. Yet so far, there's always gaps and, as you know, in a of australia, for the listeners, rural, you almost say to them is kind of rural, yeah. Or a country, town, yeah. Um, access to support, access to help that tough it up mentality is even stronger. You don't get the city. You don't get access to the support that you'd get in a city of, say, sydney or brisbane. You know what I mean on melbourne, yeah, so there are always going to be people that fall through the gaps, but our job as thinkers is humans. It's just trying to listen, just trying to be there for people who might be struggling, yeah, and don't try and problem solve.

Speaker 2: 23:37

I reflect and you asked me before right, did I feel guilty? Of course I felt all right. Did I feel guilty? Of course I felt. There were years of feeling guilt around duane's passing. Pardon me, should I have done more? Did I listen good enough? Did I say the wrong thing? Should I stay with him all night, not let him out of my sight? There's so many things that came into mind, but I can't take back what had happened and I only knew what I knew in that moment of time, with the information that I had right in that moment. There was nothing that I could have done anything else. But, yes, I beat myself up. Why didn't you do more? Why didn't you listen? Why didn't you listen more? You shouldn't have been drinking, there shouldn't have been drugs at the party, all this stuff. But I can't take that back and I didn't know. I can't foresee the future. But what I can do is see what happened. Where did did it go wrong? What can I change for the future?

Speaker 2: 24:24

And the biggest takeaway from Dwayne's passing for me is like stop trying to problem-solve everything, especially in these kind of conversations, even with your loved ones. Right now, if you have a son, daughter I don't have families yet, hopefully one day, but I've got a wife and it's the same thing Like, stop trying to be a problem solver all the time. Because sam webb's brain kicked in that knife, I was like how can I help? Where can I fix? Fix it, fix it, fix it, fix it. Maybe dwayne just wanted me to shut the fuck up and listen more. Listen non-judgmentally. I wasn't being judgmental at all, but it was like maybe I could have listened more. And so these are the things listen non-judgmentally. Stop trying to problem solve. You're not supposed to have the answer to everything and you aren't People.

Speaker 2: 25:08

And I can tell from my own experience as being at the depths of life many times is like what I'm looking for in those moments is someone to say, okay, here's a grand, big, special plan and life is laid out in a platter and this is the way forward. It's not about that. And life is laid out in a platter and this is the way forward. It's not about that. It's about someone just shutting up, listening to you with open ears and trying to help you however you can.

Speaker 2: 25:31

For example, lockie, I see that you're struggling. Is there something that I can do right now that may be able to help you? You might be like nah, sammy, I'm sweet, life is great, I'm fine man. Yeah, okay, don't worry. Be like nah, sammy, I'm sweet, life is great, I'm fine man. Yeah, okay, no worries, man, just want to let you know, as a good friend, I'm here whenever you're ready. There's no pressure, no rush. Just let me know when you're ready. Just give me a tap, give me a text, give me a call, whatever. Whatever works for you, no worries, man. Now you know as a friend that sam's listened, he's opened up the space and he's provided the segue for you to get the support you need whenever it's time for you. There's no pressure, there's no problem solving and there's no shoving information and education and self-help tips down his throat. Go to the gym, fucking. Go for a run. Sit in a sauna. You'll feel better in 30 minutes. I know you feel better in 30 minutes and I go for runs almost every second day.

Speaker 2: 26:20

I know it makes you feel better, but for some people they can't run like you and I, yeah, they can't get on a treadmill, they can't get on a fucking bike, they can't go to the gym, they can't sit in the sauna. That's shit too hard. What can I do right now? That's going to help you, and that's just shutting up and listening and just being an open ear. That's it. And you do not have to have a medical degree for that, and that's the one thing I've learned that's a massive takeaway, like the fact for them, that big thing is actually just opening up.

Speaker 1: 26:46

I remember we're in uh, bali, but we're on a beautiful island over in papua new guinea amazing couple of minutes. Go out on the boats and whatever. And I was depressed. I was having a really really, really low day. I was like I just need to be locked like, not locked in. I didn't get locked in, but just stay in the room. You guys go do your thing.

Speaker 1: 27:04

And I was sitting there thinking like why the fuck do I always have these big mood swings? And I sat in it for fucking like six hours. And then I remember at one point I was like I don't, my goal wasn't to go run or anything like that, but it's like if this happens again, instead of being six hours, it's going to be five hours. What do I need to do to decrease the time of these mood swings? And over time I've developed different habits. I still have, um, massive highs and lows and all that sort of stuff, but I'm a lot more aware around triggers and causes. That's the reason why I was saying I don't drink a heat like I used to, because that's not really good for me, um, and various other things, but it wasn't the fact that I'm like, get your ass off and go for a run in your lazy bicycle, because that just makes me feel I've already. I'm already feeling like a failure, so I'm so sad in the fact that now I can't run, I'll get in the sauna. It's like now I feel like a real piece of shit.

Speaker 1: 27:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to your point, like the fact that someone's opening up to you is a really big, huge thing for them. Right to meet them where they're at and just then, hopefully, whatever that next step is for them, they'll, you know, feel comfortable taking that when they're ready. But even depression and anxiety and you mentioned bipolar, while we label all of these things it's like that experience for everyone is so unique it is. It's one of the things I hate is like when people say I've been depressed, I've been anxious, this is what it's like, this is what I did in my yeah, but that was your experience. You're completely disregarding what you've discovered. It's like just listen, don't jam your experience down my throat, or anything like that. It's helpful when I'm in a good mood.

Speaker 2: 28:36

I write now, just potentially listen, yeah, and that's it man, and that's it man. I mean, no one has the answers to everything. Mental health is complex and your experience is very different than mine. Your anxiety is different than my anxiety. You might have some similar symptoms, but it affects us differently. It's unique and what works for you may not work for me. Maybe some of the things work for me, like, yeah, just a hot shower, feel relaxed. Yeah, that definitely works for me. Like, yeah, just a hot shower, feel relaxed. Yeah, that definitely works for me. This one, being in a creative place, um, super anxious, isn't probably the best place for me. Maybe it's a good distraction for you, you know. So it's very different. It's extremely unique. Don't judge someone's experience. Just be there and listen, like you mentioned, be with them at that same level and just listen.

Speaker 2: 29:23

Mental health is hand on my heart is the most important thing in life. In order to get your physical health at its optimum and its highest potential and your spiritual potential. Everything I feel like revolves around your mental wellness. So, whatever you can do to feel good in life between your ears and sharp, and feel confident and uplifted and satisfied and maybe even content, you're already miles ahead of where most almost most people are yeah, because like, yeah, it's a funny thing, you know this. This whole this is a bigger conversation than suicide prevention. This is this is a conversation of. It's a mental health game we're looking at here.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Life is a mental health game. Everything that you do is all about how you react to situations under pressure, how you react to situations under stress. What are you saying back to someone in the road right, like in cutting off in traffic, like this is all mental related. It's not how big you are, how much weight you can lift, how far you run, how hot's your, your wife, or how successful you are in your business. It's how you react to situations and that all starts with the way that your brain brain is kind of functioning at that moment.

Speaker 2: 30:51

So it's what you can do to strengthen that that brain, that muscle that you can show up in this world and be the best version for yourself. But then you're going to be the best for everyone else. You know best for your mates. You need best for your. Be the best for your wife, your partner, your son, your daughter, your cousin, your niece, whoever it is your colleague. You're going to be better at work. You're going to be better in the gym because you feel cleaner, like you feel clearer, so you know what you want. You know how to lift, what to lift, you're more motivated so it just affects everything.

Speaker 2: 31:22

You know what I mean, a hundred percent. So that's why I'm very pro-mental wellness. It's not. Mental health is like a continuum. Yep, we all sit on a continuum of zero to ten, for example, and we slide and come up and down on a day-to-day, a minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour basis. We might be doing cool right now we're on a podcast, we're having a good chat talking about wellness and how to help people and experiences, but maybe there's something that breaks down this afternoon. Maybe there's a big business deal that goes wrong, or a house falls through that you wanted to buy, or the missus is in an accident. God forbid, it doesn't happen. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and that might get you off guard, and then shit happens and then you might slide and then you might be now stressed and you might be slipping.

Speaker 1: 32:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:10

But it's when we sit too far down on the bottom part of the spectrum, because mental health and mental illness are two very different things. We've all got mental health. It's just where we sit on that spectrum. Mental illness is a diagnosable mental health challenge which changes the way that you behave on a day-to-day basis. It can affect your day-to-day moods, your decision making and all that sort of stuff. So it's actually a diagnosable illness like a broken arm or a leg, but we all have mental health. So it's important to make you make mention that, because they're very different. Mental health and mental illness, two different things I did.

Speaker 1: 32:41

Yeah, I don't think people cover that enough. So for me it's like mental health as well, semi-physical health. You could be the absolute sports star, like how often you've probably seen you go back home and the start of the fucking school football team was jacked, and now he's, you know, 40 kilos overweight and hasn't looked after himself. And it's like, okay, well, health doesn't matter. Whether you've got pinnacle mental health, spiritual health, financial health. Today it can be taken away from you with things out of your control, but also things that maybe you're doing right, and that's why, for me, it's like learning these, these tools and resources and communication is a massive one for well-being and I think, moving anything towards relationships, finances. The better you can communicate, people can understand you, you can understand them, you understand yourself better, which is key to going, like how I feel like I'm heading towards a bit of a slippery slope. Do I need support? Do I need, you know, my professional help? Do I need tools? And you know medications, a tool, exercises, a tool, some like there's so many fucking tools, just like there's so many diets, and it's like you've got to choose the ones that work well for you. Yeah, but you know the tools that work for you 10 years ago may not work for you today. That's why it I said you're constantly, you know, chipping away at it and I think you're sharing your story and what you guys have done with living has been huge, because there's more people than ever. You know, man, this is my experience with it. This is what works for me. I'm not saying it's going to work for you, but if you have a tool, you want to test that out and add it to your life. Awesome, like test a crack. Yeah, exactly, but you've said it a couple of times now you've obviously stepped away from living.

Speaker 1: 34:18

I was listening to a podcast that you were on recently and I was very curious as to why and sort of what's next for you, because you've obviously put your heart and soul into that for 10 years and I do remember you saying like it gave you purpose, right, and I'm a big believer and I actually wrote down here like purpose is the reason for which something is done and created and for which something exists, and you were doing that in memory.

Speaker 1: 34:42

But also it then gave you purpose to stop other people taking their life, so for something that was your vehicle and I want to really highlight this, because a lot of people think that a decision they've made is something that's going to stay for the rest of their life. Yeah, it know, it's like that's why so many of those don't make decisions and I'm like, fuck, what if I don't like that? Or what if that's the wrong decision? It's like you were 10 years into something and now you've made a new decision to try something new. What you know, I guess, inspired that and were you nervous as well about leaving behind something that had been a big part of your life for the last 10 years.

Speaker 2: 35:11

It's a great question. I appreciate you asking and you know what. It was a very hard decision For me. I think a big catalyst of it was leaving Australia Yep, leaving Australia to come to America Living. Yes, I credit living and Dwayne and this whole movement for saving my own life a number of times, to be honest, and it gave me everything that I have in life and service in my being, my purpose, my mission and, yeah, it really was an incredible experience. It was great to be a part of Met some of the most beautiful people along the way. People changed my life, I changed their life, we changed their life. I was their life, we changed their life. I was involved in some cool initiatives, every life remembrance man. I'll never forget it and I'll always be a part of it in some way, shape or form, whether I'm just advocating for them or whatever.

Speaker 2: 36:06

Moving to America in 2019, I decided obviously I wanted to come over here. I did want to pursue living in America because I realised living would be needed in the States. It's probably needed everywhere. But also, you know, I've got other dreams and aspirations, too that I want to achieve in my life, and you know one of them is acting and I moved to the States with my now wife and it was just, it just naturally happened. I feel like man. I mean, being here and being so far removed from the team, trying to work remotely wasn't really beneficial for the team or myself and them and probably everyone's mental health. Yeah, it's not great working in different time zones by yourself.

Speaker 2: 36:51

It was very hard and I kind of wouldn't say that I lost my love for it, but I wasn't doing the work that I was doing on the cold face, like so. When I lived in america, I was on the ground, I'm sorry. When I was living in australia, I was on the ground, right, I was meeting people, speaking at events, um, seeing people's change by having interactive conversations, whereas when I'm in america, I didn't realize it at the time, I was like, no, it's going to work, I can make it work, but no, I mean, I was very wrong. It was coming to the states. I was basically fully removed and then just working on high level tasks, operational stuff, which I'm not good at and I'm not the the greatest person to be doing and I didn't. I don't enjoy it, to be honest. So I guess for me it was that, but also knowing that I'd been doing it for 10 years. I loved what I did, this legacy as a leader.

Speaker 2: 37:39

I think it's important to recognize when, when your time is up and knowing that it's okay to to leave something behind that you you might have had a hand in creating and you were so passionate in, and you changed lives and you changed your own life it's okay to be able to say you know what? I'm in a place now where I feel healthy enough to walk away from it and I'm going to try something else. I'm going to pass that on to someone else, pass the baton to someone else, and they can fly the flag with their own new visions and their own new missions and their way of life, and they're going to be more hands-on because they're back in australia. I wasn't doing it justice being an american man, unless we started it here, and it just for a lot of different reasons. It's it wasn't meant to be and here I am, man and in america.

Speaker 2: 38:25

As I said, it was the most amazing experience I had. I love, I love it. I love everyone involved in it. I'm very grateful to have got the opportunity to be a part of it for 10 years and my goal was getting into. It was changing one life, saving one life. We've saved thousands of lives and I want living to outlive me. I want it to teach other people a legacy. I want it to be a thing people remember in their own day-to-day lives and their own behavioral changes. So I feel like for me it was a success. I'm now on to my next missions and I'm still advocating for wellness and mental health and everything that I do and I'll always do that and that's just a part of my life and my DNA, and I'm very grateful and lucky to be able to do that from afar.

Speaker 1: 39:11

That's awesome, man. It's exciting. I was thinking about in my head. I'm like wondering why I was thinking about your potential responses, and there was a quote that probably hits that well, where it's the purpose of life is to discover your gift. The work is to develop it. The meaning of life is to give it away, and that's sort of what you've done with living, and now, obviously, moving into that next, next chapter of your life is pretty bloody exciting as well, and I've been looking at that back.

Speaker 1: 39:39

As for for mental health as well, I know when I was, I guess, at my rock bottom after footy, I didn't have a purpose, or I didn't think I had a purpose, but I hadn't explored much outside of that, because for so long my identity was I'm a footy player, that's it. And then when that's taken away from you, so my purpose is done, my life stuff. But what I've recognized over the last 10 years is by just trying new stuff, trying to find purpose, I found even the man that can project. People ask me are you going to do this for everyone? Like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 40:11

I'm not attached to it anymore like I used to. I love it, it's everything to me right now, but I don't, if I believe it's everything that's defines me, if I ever do step away from it or walk away from it, you know, find myself in that same position I was 10 years ago. Yeah, it's like I'm a husband, I'm a. Consider myself an athlete still, I'm a you know business, but there's so many elements to me I think that's for everyone. We just don't give ourself enough acknowledgement or shine the light on those aspects of ourselves. So when one thing's taken away, we're like fuck yeah, I think.

Speaker 2: 40:42

I think it's a super important thing you brought up actually, man, I think. And to your point about the transitional stuff and how you get stuck up in this identity, one thing I did did really, and yes, the whole transition and living has been difficult as far as finding my real strong, happy purpose, where I wake up every day and I'm fucking chipper and I'm poverty. Yes, it's difficult but, like you said, you try things, you test things, you find things. It doesn't happen overnight. It may take years, but eventually it will come.

Speaker 2: 41:14

But not wrapping yourself up in an identity like I'm Sam for the live and do, that's not what it's about. I'm Sam who's generous. I'm Sam who's kind, I'm compassionate. I'm a good listener. Now, maybe when I was younger I wasn't the best listener, but I'm a lot better than now. I'm a very hard worker. I don't take no for an answer. These are things that we should identify with as opposed to I'm. I'm a banker, I'm an actor, I'm a musician. You know, all these things is where people go wrong, because when that stuff's taken away from them, or it fails or they don't succeed in it, it's like, well, fuck, what am I? You know? Then you feel lost, then you implode. So I did a pretty good job with that, with living, because I, because I spoke to so many people throughout- the 10 years and throughout my life experiences.

Speaker 2: 42:02

I've seen it on podcasts, heard professional athletes struggle with this transition of identity crisis and I was like I can't do that.

Speaker 1: 42:08

I can't do that, I can't do that so I trained myself pretty well, so I with that part I've been very blessed.

Speaker 2: 42:14

I've been great because I positioned myself well enough to. I'm not Sam that I help with it. That's not who I am.

Speaker 1: 42:22

It's a good point, though. Everyone's going to experience transition at some point in their life. So, whether you think it's not going to happen to you, you need to start getting prepared for it, because it will happen, whether it's. Kids leave the home. We've got a big portion of dads in our community and I literally jump on all their calls because I'm like, oh, I want to be a dad one day, obviously, and the stuff that they're talking about some of the you know ones just become a granddad.

Speaker 1: 42:45

So it's like it's very interesting hearing different stages of life and learning from them what they wish they knew, and I'm like, well, I was thinking about that on the way over. I'm like, fuck, all the, all the advice we you know. If I knew everything I knew now when I was younger, I wouldn't have made the same mistake. Yeah, so that's never going to be reality for any of us. We have to learn through our experiences, but if we have people who are older than us in the position we've been in and we have the ability to talk to them and learn from them, why the fuck are we doing that? And when we do talk to them, why don't we actually listen to what they're saying rather than oh no, stupid, exactly, I'll do it. It's wisdom.

Speaker 1: 43:21

Yeah, yeah, literally that's the word I was looking for. I was hoping it would come out, but I don't have enough of that yet. But you've mentioned acting as well. So over in la, acting between the little that I know about, it is a, not a sport, a career where you'd face extreme rejection. Has that been part of your experience and, if so, what has inspired you to continue going? Because rejection is something people just won't do anything in their life because they're fearing it. They, they aren't even experiencing it, they're experiencing the fear of it. So, for you as an actor and your experience, how have you been inspired to continue to work through?

Speaker 2: 44:00

that 99.99% have been no's made rejections, and that's the industry I've got to the bed with. I guess that's just what I've said before. I love doing it. I feel like for me, and part of the story is I love doing it, I feel like for me, and part of the story is I started pursuing acting. I should have done it a lot earlier. I was doing it as like an extra and as a kid my family used to try to push me into it, but I was always into sports. But when Dwayne passed, it was actually part of my first ever performance. It was a 12-show performance on the Gold Coast. Actually, it was halfway through rehearsals when Dwayne passed.

Speaker 2: 44:36

It's what kept the glue together and it's what made me feel alive, made me feel really present. I could forget about everything in life and just be super in the moment. It's kind of like that same thing. You'd feel back. You know, as an athlete, when you're in the zone, it's the same feeling. I feel in the zone when I'm on a set or I'm in a class. It's the same feeling. It's very addictive. I love it Very hard.

Speaker 2: 45:04

I'm here in LA. This is the mecca. This is a Super Bowl of entertainment. So I've signed up for the hardest gig in the world but, mate, I feel like I've got what it takes. I don't take no for an answer.

Speaker 2: 45:18

I love working hard. I love hard work and the acting acting's cool because you can it's. You've got to be very empathetic, you're very compassionate, you've got to understand different types of people, what you are and what other people are and how you can become that person, in a way, by using your instrument being myself. So you get a very good side in understanding other people from a psychological point of view. Yeah, and I like it, man, because it's a very big challenge for me and it makes I love being present, because it's something I big challenge for me and it makes it just I love being present because it's something I struggle with in life.

Speaker 2: 45:59

I'm always thinking about things, my mind goes pretty quick, it doesn't really slow down until the night and like it's one of those things that really slows me down and makes me really present and appreciate things. And I know I'm going around the surface here. But yeah, acting is the hardest. It's it's been nothing but rejection, but you got to take the small wins, what's in your control and you just keep getting back up and if it's something that you want, well enough and a lot you make you find a way. It's whatever it takes, and that's the mindset that I'm in right now. It's whatever it takes for me and I've got, no, I've got. I. I'm literally yeah, it's, it's. It's not an option to fail in it it's it's.

Speaker 1: 46:39

There's two things that I take away from that that I get excited about. One is obviously the experience of who you become in that process, like the being present, something I also struggle with. I'm always doing something and I'm like it's coming tomorrow or whatever, and I'm very aware of that. But one thing that I'm very uncomfortable with is is like dancing and acting and saying, well, this is hate it and I don't do it. But as you're explaining it there, it's like you get in your body and it's the one time you are fully present, because you've got to notice how, maybe as an actor, like how your facial expressions are, how your body language is breathing, like all these things that send, and we hear it with meditation and a lot of other things, but acting in itself is probably a great way to do that, and that literally just hit me down.

Speaker 1: 47:21

I'm like, fuck, maybe I should Take some classes.

Speaker 2: 47:23

Yeah, acting is meditation. That's exactly what it is.

Speaker 1: 47:26

Yeah, well, I think, for people who struggle being present, maybe that's like a random tool, but a tool to get in your body and learn to become more aware of it, because, yeah, when you can do that mentally, it's going to help you as well.

Speaker 2: 47:40

And more comfortable too, man. I mean, I've become more comfortable. It's very hard. It's a very hard craft. Acting looks easy when you look at like experts doing it, but they're very hard. It's a very hard industry, both professionally as a craft and both from a business perspective. It's very hard to do anything.

Speaker 1: 47:59

So I made up, I'm here for the ride and yeah, I'm, I'm excited and you're gonna have these life stories as well that so many people won't have, because if you did that traditional, I know or you said you were in banking right yeah, because I don't know no kidding, there's a bankers like you know.

Speaker 1: 48:14

If you stand on that path, it's like you know what your life's probably going to look like, right, yeah, I think most people aren't taking many risks or creating that life resume. I don't know if you're familiar with Jesse Itzler. He talks about building that life resume and it's like, yeah, he's an amazing dude.

Speaker 1: 48:31

But anyway you look back on your life. Even to me, my business was pumping back home very comfortable, living a dream, and then to move out here just to support my wife. One left a lot behind, but it's like we're making the gnarliest memories ever.

Speaker 1: 48:45

We've just been on like 22 state radio tours. That's amazing. It sucks but also fun. Yeah, like, when are you going to get a chance to do that? Actually, it's the stuff you'll talk about and I think it's very important. It's what gives me purpose and also excitement in life because, like, even though it's not always fun, it's like looking back, the stories are fun. Yeah, a lot of people don't have good stories because they're not trying new things or experiencing rejection or failure, and it's like one thing that's cliche saying to her there's no failure, it's just an opportunity to learn or failure. And it's like one thing that's cliche saying to it there's no failure, it's just an opportunity to learn or whatever it is, and that's all. It is right, because it shows you who you need to become to get the result that you want, rather than it's just like that association with failure You're a failure. It's like that's complete bullshit. You're only a failure if you believe that Exactly.

Speaker 2: 49:30

You need to change the narrative. Just change that, changing your relationship or the definition of what failure means to you. I guess, take it as a learning experience, not as you've lost your shit, you suck, because that's just degrading.

Speaker 1: 49:44

Yeah, exactly, and so you've also got involved in something exciting here in San Diego. Yeah, pretty pumped about that.

Speaker 2: 49:51

Yeah, I am. It's a very new industry for me. Still, health and wellness related.

Speaker 2: 49:57

So I'm still having an impact on people's lives. Hopefully I'm sure we will. It's called Air Locker Training. It's obviously started in Australia, but the boys who I'm working for and with have brought the concept to the US and we're opening up our first ever us uh studio in san diego. That will be the head office and for those people who don't know what air locker training is, it's the first ever simulated altitude group fitness training.

Speaker 2: 50:25

So cool, so essentially, it's like people like what do you mean? What do you mean simulated altitude training? Well, it's basically pretty simple. You walk into a room and it's like you're training at 12 000 feet above sea level. So it's like you're at top of colorado, one of the mountains out, so your oxygen intake's a little lower, um, so it's it's. You notice that there's no masks, there's none of this sinus pressure and all the stuff you'd get if you were to climb base camp in colorado, because what we're doing is manipulating the oxygen molecules in the air. Very simple we breathe at, say, 21% oxygen at sea level In our rooms or in our studio. You're breathing at, you know, 14.5% oxygen. Yeah, basically. So your blood saturations diminish, okay. So what that means is you're basically when we're breathing right now we're at about 98 99 right yep blood sats in our in our studios. When you're walking out in a group setting, in a team setting which is unreal your blood sats try to be around about the 83 to 85 percent mark. So you you only notice it a fraction on your breathing. People like, oh, that sounds scary and dory not at all. It's a very minor adjustment to your breathing, but the positive mental benefits and physical benefits are insanely amazing and there's a lot of science.

Speaker 2: 51:50

Now, as you probably heard, athletes have been doing this for decades, so now we're bringing this to the masses so that everybody can train safely in a simulated altitude training environment and increase their results in less time and safer. So you actually get more like less wear and tear in your muscles because you're not actually able to train at such a high intensity because the reduced oxygen environment. So it's better on your muscles. The recovery is outstanding and what I love most about our sessions is we always finish with breath work and meditation. So it's a real. You've got this real super like altitude high, that you actually experience an altitude higher. But then the end of our sessions is very relaxing. It's very calm and very centering. It gets you back into that state of zen. So you you're ready to take on the day.

Speaker 2: 52:41

But I guess the biggest takeaway from what I love most about this it's it's about creating mental composure. It's been increasing your resilience in life, so we call it kind of like like. We call kind of call like a controlled stress environment. Yep, so it's a big focus in our sessions and we've got a number of sessions. Strength, lean boxing, all that sort of stuff is about controlling your breath. Same way you do when you're acting, same way you're doing when you're performing or when you're meditating. What are you doing in a stressful situation, in a controlled stress environment? If you focus on your breath, you can actually slow down your heart rate, you can actually be more aware, you can increase resilience. That is what we lead first with it's brain training. Our studios is brain training first and then physical training second.

Speaker 1: 53:32

That's such a cool resource and obviously the team component. You cannot be it's why, crossfit was so successful and even like higher ups now with the teams and stuff, um and any group training being take off, because you got that camaraderie and it's so hard especially after for those who are athletes or played team sports right after that you're like you're always looking to fill that void. So when you can find a group training experience that brings that back, it's hard to man, like it is a proper challenge.

Speaker 2: 53:57

Like people get into each other. You're training in sometimes pairs, sometimes a little team, and it is a. It is honestly and I say this not just because I'm involved in it it's, it's really fucking cool and it's and it's it's a great way to take and transform skills that you learn inside the gym aka breath work, controlled stress, composure into an everyday life. In a situation where you might be under stress, you might be under fatigue. What can you do in those situations in your life? You can transfer those same tools that we're teaching in the gym. Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 54:35

So, so good. Sam Webb, everyone, mate, where can people find you if they want to follow along with your journey and all the stuff you're doing?

Speaker 2: 54:41

They can find me just on Instagram probably is the easiest place, that's Sam Webb or they can see my website, samwebbcomau, and follow the journey and I appreciate the support that people have had on the Living Project over the years. And, yeah, if you want to support, thank you, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 54:57

Awesome. I'll put all of that in the show notes, but thank you guys for tuning in and if you got value from the episode, make sure you share it with your friends and leave a rating review. Thank you.