Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Welcome to Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart—the podcast dedicated to empowering men to break through barriers and achieve their full potential.
Hosted by Lachlan Stuart, this show dives deep into the challenges men face, offering actionable insights, real-life stories, and expert advice. Whether you're focused on fitness, business, personal growth, or fatherhood, you'll find inspiration and tools here to help you rise above any challenge and become the man that can.
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Tune in, get inspired, and start living the life you’ve always wanted.
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Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Open Conversations With My Brother In Law | George Sheppard #587
In this episode George Sheppard & Lachlan Stuart ask each other of couple of questions. Not just your regular questions but questions they want to know but have never asked.
Expect to hear about when Lachie knew he wanted to marry Amy.
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Do Something Today To Be Better For Tomorrow
Let's do the intro just quickly.
Speaker 2:Okay, because we should probably give people some context.
Speaker 1:I listened to a cool podcast the other day and I loved the idea of it because it's two people who know each other really well and they just rolled in with a couple of questions that they wanted to ask but maybe haven't asked before. To do it on public display, and I was like that's pretty cool. And I was like every time I chat with you, they're always interesting, fun conversations, especially when we sit down for a podcast. I was like let's do that. And here we are. But over the last 24 hours you guys have gone number one with the new album, zora, which is an absolute banger. It's, it's a, it's a great feeling.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've been pushing hard for an entire week, so it was a week ago today that zora.
Speaker 1:Some people are going to go a week. Is that all? You've been building this for three years so, while you did the, the final push for a week yeah, it's been a the.
Speaker 2:The album was released a week ago. But yes, there was a considerable amount of time before the album was released that we had to make the album. Uh, it was about three years of hard work and and blood, sweat and tears. And then you release it and it's, it's hooray, yay, we've got the album out. But it's also a really sucky week because you've got to.
Speaker 2:You got to push as hard as you can to reach as high as you can on the aria charts, which, um, for all of your international listeners, is kind of like the billboard charts of Australia and you know it's. It just helps with the story. Overseas, if you're, if you're, number one, you know it's it's going to be more likely that the label overseas will be like oh well, you're number one in your home country, so maybe you'll do well in other countries too. So it, you know it, so it doesn't matter, but it does matter. It's kind of this weird conflicting thing, especially as the artist, because you want people to discover the album for themselves and not have it shoved down their throat. But you've also got to be like hey, by the way, can you please buy the album this week in particular, because we need the highest charting possible that we can get.
Speaker 2:But thankfully all of the spam was received well by our fans and friends and family alike and we had the most incredible amount of support from everybody back home in Australia. And if you're one of those people, I just can't thank you enough, because we got the news at 2 am, so not even 24 hours ago.
Speaker 1:I was catching the Zs, by then you were gone. I was ago. I was catching the Zs, by then you were gone. I was done.
Speaker 2:I was half thinking about coming over and just being like If you did. Yeah, we wouldn't be talking right now?
Speaker 1:No, we would not.
Speaker 2:So I didn't want to compromise the podcast today and our chemistry but, yes, overnight we went number one. We went number one on the Australian albums chart. So the ARIA charts are kind of funny. They've got two different charts because it's almost impossible for an Australian artist, and especially an independent Australian artist like us, to get to number one on the ARIA charts like the overall charts. So you've got like your Taylor Swifts and your Morgan Wallens and the Weeknd and Gracie Abrams all these like superstars ahead of us Charlie XCX and Gracie Abrams all these like superstars, ahead of us Charlie XCX. We came eighth overall, but everybody above us is like A-list superstars, international, and so it's kind of like the Australian albums chart is the one you go by. Well, it's the one that we were number one on, so that's the one we're going to count.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll take that one Wherever the number one is. It's like my podcast, podcast charts. There's some where I'm not not cracking charts and then there's others where I'm number two and I'm like screenshot, that's me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the smallest niche but it's the nicaragua charts podcast charts.
Speaker 1:I've just bought an island somewhere and started a chart there, but it's so interesting with music especially. And just quickly before we dive into this, george and I are going to use this episode to ask each other five to eight questions, which will be fun. So I thought it was really cool because I get to dive in and we get to unpack George and obviously, as George said, we're doing a year off the booze, so I'm very excited to ask some stuff about that. You're also vlogging every day for a year, which I'm obsessed. I don't know why, but I think it was like day. I don't even know what day it was, but there was one day where I was actually just genuinely impressed that you were doing that. And now he's vlogging me here.
Speaker 2:He's pulled up his camera you're all on the vlog, guys, to catch a how, but it's day 180, by the way.
Speaker 1:Today like that's. You's nearly at halfway.
Speaker 2:That's rude. To vlog while I'm on a podcast, yeah, no, that is very rude, but yes, day 180 today.
Speaker 1:But it's so incredible and the more I think about it, I'm like in 10 years' time we'll be able to watch these back.
Speaker 2:I know the whole reason I did it was so that I could watch it in 10 years' time. You had something to do when you weren't drinking beer. Well, it definitely gives me a lot of work to do that.
Speaker 1:I probably didn't realise at the time Sign up for.
Speaker 2:It's easy to film it all. It's one whole other thing to edit it and like I've got to edit, you know, for Instagram and YouTube and then upload to both and then like make a thumbnail, photoshop a thumbnail in. It's quite a lot of work every single day, but I think in the long run it's going to be worth it, because-.
Speaker 2:I think it's going to be awesome, I mean even like a week ago. I'll watch a video from a week ago and there's things that have happened that I've completely forgotten about, and there must be so many moments in your life that would have just like been this incredible memory that you've just forgotten. Or your synapse has never gone off again and you, you don't have it. It's like how much of your life have you lost, forgot?
Speaker 2:yeah forgotten about just because you know life keeps rolling on and you, just you know, create new memories and obviously the big, important core memories stand out, like you know, when you first kiss it. I don't how old were you, seven, whatever, seven.
Speaker 1:Fuck, I was six.
Speaker 2:Mine at 19, you know.
Speaker 1:No, you were 29.
Speaker 2:Kathleen's still holding out on me.
Speaker 1:But it's we were only saying this after the tour. Like you had a very successful tour as well, which we can definitely talk about. But I was thinking about the cool thing about all of us is we all take photos and everything like that, and I thought it would be cool at some point where you just have a laptop or a tv we don't have a tv in our apartment, but maybe go to emma's and you just bring up random photos and everyone tells their take of what was happening at that point, because, even though we were all there, our memory or recollection of it's going to be different, like our experience in that moment would be different.
Speaker 2:So it'd be fucking cool to cool, to experience. Everyone had a different perspective, different vantage point, yeah, that would be.
Speaker 1:That would be pretty cool. We should do that. I love that Group date night, all right. Well, I was going to say just quickly before as well the hard thing about putting podcast episodes out and also putting music out it's not like going looking at the charts is competition right? That's essentially what you're doing.
Speaker 1:You're turning your art into competition, and the challenge I see with competition in music or in podcasting it's subjective, like everyone's idea of what beautiful music is, or engaging music is so different and unique and how you feel about it can change on any given day, like there's some days where I want to listen to a cargo, there's other days where I listen to you, there's other days where I listen to you know whatever yeah, whereas like sport it's very black and white. It's like you either got to get the fastest time, throw the furthest weight, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:It's like easy to easy to do that yeah, it's more scientific and it's like, yeah, there's a numbers game you're playing and if you're the fastest person or if you're the strongest person, it's a competition. But with music or any kind of art form podcasts, whatever it it is just subjective and it's annoying that like labels can actually manipulate it in a way because if you're obviously putting more money into the marketing of something, more people are going to see it and so more people are going to buy it.
Speaker 2:And if you haven't got the money behind it, it doesn't matter if it's better or worse or whatever it's just, it's a money game at the end of the day. And of course, spotify has it's got ownership from all the major labels like Universal, sony, emi, they've all got Warner, they've all got a stake in Spotify, so they can essentially just like populate all the playlists with their artists, their priority artists. So whenever you just go onto Spotify as a normal listener, you know you'll choose a playlist just like oh, you know, sunday afternoon, chill, whatever, and they've stacked it full of the artists that they want you to listen to, and so you're essentially curating the charts by um yeah putting, putting your artists in the playlist, which is kind of like a.
Speaker 2:I mean it is what it is. It's kind of been happening since the start of the music industry. Um, but yeah it it. It doesn't necessarily mean if you're number one, it doesn't necessarily mean if you're number one, it doesn't necessarily mean you're the best album. That's kind of like. In our case it is, but it's really no indication of anything except for how much like marketing support you've had.
Speaker 1:Well, this is probably. This is not even a question that I have, but we're going to scissors paper rock it, but I've got one, so this can be the bonus After.
Speaker 1:All right, I'll keep it g-rated yeah but if we're not even drinking, wow, imagine if we were on the whiskeys, gee whiz. But as, as, I guess, an artist putting your, your music there, when you think about the charts and then, I guess, your idea of success as a musician, what does the process then look like? Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but could you be influenced to go?
Speaker 1:I have to write radio bangers, as opposed to potentially what you do on a right to be able to support yourself from a career standpoint, because there's such a, I guess pendulum or continuum of where people sit on that Some people just want to make the music that they want to make and that comes with potential consequences of you're not going to get paid because it doesn't get played or it's not sinkable, et cetera.
Speaker 2:So what's that?
Speaker 1:look like for you.
Speaker 2:I think it's a trap to fall into that mental, mental game, cause we mental, uh, mental game, because we, we did play that game after geronimo. Yeah, you know, I think we, we definitely got into that like, all right, so it was an international hit because it was a 142 bpm four on the floor, you know, and so we'd like go into writing sessions. I mean like just hit the metronome to 142, and then we'd like be like and we'd try and like recreate Geronimo in a different way. And it never worked. Not a single time did we go hey, this, this is another, this is Geronimo 2.0. We've done it. You just Geronimo is its thing, it exists. You've just got to like take inputs from other inspirations and start again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think you know we're we're kind of lucky in the sense that, like, we genuinely enjoy making songs that work on the radio, yeah and uh. You know we try and get a balance of songs that will, you know, be great to perform live and have that up-tempo energy and that anthemic euphoria that you know people love shepherd for. But also, you know we do make sure we carve out a lot of the album for our own, like experimental purposes and, like you know, dance on the sun, for example, is something that is very, very like up my alley personally as a muso and like I get to as a songwriter or whatever my musical tastes and, um, you know it's.
Speaker 2:It's about sort of like each song on the album has to be your favorite song at some point, you know, and that's the way that we curate the album. And then you've got this bunch of songs that were your favorite song at some point and you like try and find the right order for them and the right theme that goes through it all. That's what's important, not so much like is this going to be on the radio? We've got to like design this song so that as many people will like it as possible.
Speaker 2:It never works out that way, not in our experience anyway. It has to be like something that comes from within you and your own personal like magic sensor, I don't know. Like whether you're listening to your favorite song, you get that feeling. You can have the same feeling when you're writing something too, and you've got to figure out each song is different and you've got to figure out how that song can give you that feeling and it's. People have subscribed, our fans have subscribed to our musical tastes, right, it's like we're not. We're not making music for them. At the end of the day, we're making music to make ourselves happy, first and foremost, and that hopefully also makes them happy Juicy.
Speaker 1:And that hopefully also makes them happy Juicy. I feel like the same with the podcast. Every episode I do, there's probably been a handful where I'm like not impressed by it. But every episode that I do, if I take away one thing, I'm like that was fucking amazing, like I'll go next door, I'll tell him I'll be like this episode and then I'll do a next one. I'm like, nah, this is now the best one, yeah, but then obviously the audience takes away whatever they want. And the biggest thing to that point, which I was thinking about yesterday, from these young fellas I had on yesterday, where for so long I've thought the only reason why my podcast has value is because of the quality of guests, these young fellas said yes, thank you, thank you, thank you Butchered it today Tank the ratings.
Speaker 1:And these guys were like, yeah, we would sell ad spots for their podcast when they would have certain guests on. And then they realized like that's undervaluing themselves. It's like we're the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like we need to value ourself, and that's what even for me now is like wanting to do more podcasts like this with people I actually know. So many people come on and nothing against. It's worked really well for me and I learn a lot. But people come on to promote their books or talk about themselves and it's like I prefer more when it's like a back and forth conversation, because for me it's like I want my audience to understand or learn from me at the same time, which is a selfish thing, but it's also my fucking show man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know you've got to be able to sort of have that. You know push and pull. It's not just like you're letting this person have their platform, it's like you know you want to back and forth. You want to play ping pong, you want to play paper, scissors, rock.
Speaker 1:Should we just do it yeah?
Speaker 2:let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. So this is to ask the first question.
Speaker 1:Again, Lockie's asked us to prepare each we have to prepare eight questions that we want to ask each other. What I'm really confused about is where are your questions, are they?
Speaker 2:up in your noggin. No, I've got them on my phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I wrote some down, because there were some ones that I knew what would happen If I didn't write them down. We would have just gone back and forth which would have still been entertaining, but there's such a variety here, yeah, that I'm genuinely excited okay, ready, so paper, scissors, rock or paper scissors rock shoot. Which scissors paper rock okay whatever scissors paper rock bang yeah, just scissors paper rock bang. Okay, all right scissors paper rock bang. Oh okay, so you say bang. I just thought you meant like let's do it your way.
Speaker 2:That that's. That's the way I'm used to, but I've been seeing videos, anyway, ready.
Speaker 1:What videos are you watching?
Speaker 2:I watch Scissors Paper Rock on YouTube all the time. Ready Scissors Paper Rock.
Speaker 1:Okay, you go first.
Speaker 2:No, you won, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:All right, but what's the most laughable moment from your previous tour?
Speaker 2:The most laughable moment.
Speaker 1:Laughable moment.
Speaker 2:This is an easy one because I do you remember it, I don't know what you're going to say. So we'd played the first show of the tour in Boston and it was like the first show that we've done without any crew and it was us setting up all the equipment and, you know, we were kind of relying a little bit on the local crew. At each venue, you know, there's always a production manager, somebody who's running the sound, and there was this guy. I can't remember his name, I think it was also Zach or Ryan or something.
Speaker 2:So we did the show at the Berklee College of Music and it was like at or ryan or something it was. So we we did the show at the berkeley college of music and it was like at one of the cafes there. They had a stage which they must use for the showcases and whatnot. Um, you know, 250 capacity room, not a huge room, and we had, like all of these students helping us out set up the stage, which was which was awesome, great luxury.
Speaker 2:The production manager, who was like the teacher, introduced himself and then completely disappeared, leaving these kids to try and like figure out our stage setup and show, and he like didn't do anything and he was just like in the back room and he brought out another input list based on what we'd given him that the students could understand, and he'd accidentally said zal instead of zach, and so we're like zal, that's an interesting name and he, and then he went like off on this ramble about who who zal gibson was or some some famous artist, and he went back we're all stressing out trying to set up the stage.
Speaker 2:He went back and the best use of his time was to find a picture of this guy, zal, who was dressed up as a clown, with a guitar, and he prints out a high definition color photo of it and goes and gives it to zach, our guitarist. He's like this is who I meant, this is who I thought you were. And zach was just like you thought I was him. Yeah, thanks, this is who you, this is what you see of me. And then that was the best use of his time.
Speaker 1:All the students are pulling their hair out.
Speaker 2:We're all stressing about getting this show up and running. He's printing out photos of clowns. On his previous and then at the end of the show we're like packing up and he comes out again and he's just like I'm just going to take that back and he took the clown back. It's like his fetish so and when we were laughing I just I almost crashed the car. I was laughing so hard and we were debriefing about it in the van on the way back to the abnb it was so funny.
Speaker 1:I just can't remember him as well when he rolled in, like he rolled in 20 minutes after the other person who was there first yeah, and I, ah, we're going to get it all sorted and he said he was going to do something and then he just disappeared again and I was like what are we doing? Like odd character, like if that's, if that's leadership, it's at its finest and the uh yeah, finest.
Speaker 2:And the uh yeah. Anyway, it was. It was just a funny moment. Okay, my question what is it? Okay, we've got. Uh, I mean, that was a fun question.
Speaker 1:I thought I'd open it up with something you know laughable light, you know really okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Well, in that case I'll go to question uh four, which is quite it's interesting. When and how did you know that my sister amy was the one? Wow when was the moment you were like I'm gonna marry this girl?
Speaker 1:I remember the moment when I decided I I'll give you two the just moment that I decided I was going to propose was when I was walking back from the gym one day and I literally got halfway across the road between Functionwell and number 68 and I was like it's time, and I literally called Hogan then on the walk back and I was like we need to, I hope you finished the crossing of the road.
Speaker 1:No, I stopped there because I wanted to make a scene and walked back. But I think for me, when it wasy was like there were so many moments where I was expecting her to sort of kick me to the curb. So obviously thailand, when I was a bit of a prick and she has always supported me, so it was probably. I don't think there's a moment that general, like there's a definite moment, but it's just like an accumulation of moments where she could have easily just told me to fuck off and she didn't. And so for me it's like how caring she was and I was like this girl doesn't make me jealous, doesn't make me stress about not being good enough or just accepts me for who I am and where I am, and I love that.
Speaker 2:So I was like you just accepts me for who I am and where I am, and I love that, so I was like you essentially found someone that could put up with you Okay, ah yeah, fuck you. That's what we're all trying to do. That's beautiful, no, that's good. And what was it about that moment? You crossing the road that you were like it's time.
Speaker 1:I think I've always wanted to, because you've crossed that road a million times. I have crossed that road a million times. I've been asked a million times as well. I think it was that I wanted to prove to myself, initially that I wasn't going to ever be an asshole again, and like it took six years to prove, or seven years or eight years, however many years I was not engaged for. But I think that was the moment where it like all clicked, that I was like financially I was in a good position, I've proven to myself that I'm not being a wanker on the drinking. Like I ticked enough boxes in my own head to feel like I was good enough, right, and so prior to that, it was always like I could fuck up and I didn't want to fuck up. So, yeah, that's how I justified it to myself and I was like I'm ready, interesting, put my big boy pants on, yeah, nice, nice, all right cool.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm not going to change the order. I'm going number two. Okay, I'm not going to jump ahead to four. I could actually no. What has been the biggest changes you've noticed in yourself since not drinking both?
Speaker 2:the good and the bad.
Speaker 1:Because you're at six months, pretty much tomorrow or the next day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not too far behind you. I'm day 180 of sobriety.
Speaker 2:And this is way longer than I've ever had since I turned 18. Like I think I've done three months before, I've done three months stints and that felt like a lifetime. And now to have done six months, I mean I never made it to that day 100, because three months is like a lifetime. And now to have done six months, I mean I never made it to that day 100 because three months is like 92 days or 93 days and it was always like leading into my birthday or something, and so I'd get to like day 93 and then it's my birthday and then I'm like well, that's over.
Speaker 2:So, this was the first time I crossed over the hundred and I was incredibly proud of myself. And now I'm at day 180. I'm almost at 200 days and that just like saying that out loud is I mean it's. It's just like layers, like building one brick on top of the next, like every single day is just another brick that you're putting down.
Speaker 2:And I mean I'm sure that this is something you talk about a lot, but it's just that repetitive decision-making that you just go, I'm not going to drink today. And then tomorrow you're like well, I feel like a beer. It's Friday afternoon, I'm not going to drink today. And you just do that 180 times and you find yourself in this wonderful position where you haven't drunk for half a year. And you know, for anyone out there listening, like I enjoyed my alcohol, maybe a bit too much. And for anyone out there listening, like I, I enjoyed I enjoyed my alcohol maybe a bit too much. And uh, you know, when we first got to nashville it was kind of like a and the excitement of being in a new city, in music city. It's an exciting place to be.
Speaker 2:There's always another event, there's always something special going on in nashville and it's very easy to fall into like drinking every day or like of every day, yeah we, we got here and we were having at least like five days a week where we were sort of drinking quite heavily plus the gummies plus the gummies and we. We kind of got to new years and we were like we're definitely doing dry january, we're committing to that. And then halfway through we're like do you reckon we could do a whole year? And I was like, oh, I don't know about that a whole year.
Speaker 2:Like it's a great idea now, like january 12th, but maybe, like come june 21st, we release an album, or emma's wedding, or maybe there's going to be some point where we want to have a drink and, to our credit, we've we've managed to like go through all of those challenges and we've stayed strong and I'm really proud of myself and you for like saying, and Liam as well but he had a hall pass for his wedding which we won't hold against him, but we won't forget. But we won't forget. Imagine that that's not the deal and he only had like two drinks anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but one thing that I've found positive about it is productivity has obviously skyrocketed. You know I'm able to wake up and get things done, Whereas it would usually take me, you know, a whole day, Like if I drink, the next day is a write-off.
Speaker 1:You know I'm just like I can't be bothered getting out of bed or whatever, like I'm just going to order Uber Eats. If people aren't watching YouTube, you've got to see George's facial expressions. It just amplifies what he's talking about.
Speaker 2:And like you, just you know I'm doing this vlog, which I wouldn't have been able to do with alcohol in the equation, and it's just like you know, my brain feels like it's switched on. I feel like the brain fog's the thing of the past. And, yeah, just for this year in particular, when we're like trying to hustle, get a start in the USA, like it's been completely necessary, I feel Negatives. There hasn't really been many negatives and like the negatives that I would list off are just like not having as much fun. You know, it's like doesn't doesn't really equate to like a negative, it's just like like today, for example, we got the news that the album went number one on the Australian albums charts.
Speaker 2:everyone's down there right now by the pool in the sun summer sunshine, having drinks, celebrating and, like I, just we had to fill our time with a podcast. I have to talk to loggy, yeah no, it's, it's like I I wish that I could still have those moments of just like yeah, that that that release of the celebration, that celebratory moment of just like crack a beer, have a wonderful like release, because like I don't feel like I get that as much anymore.
Speaker 2:It's called an orgasm mate I don't get that much anymore. That's tough. So you know, I like the, the pros have far outweighed any negatives and the negatives, like I said, are just like you know, oh, I wish I could go out and have some fun with my friend or whatever. Like it's a sacrifice that is definitely worth the sacrifice. Yeah, it's a sacrifice that's worth making.
Speaker 1:Are you going to drink again?
Speaker 2:I'm sure I will. I'm sure I will. I'm not like I'm not saying yes or no at the moment, but I feel like we'll get to. I'm saying the same Some saying yes or no at the moment, but I feel like we'll get in the same some days. I'm like like last night with amy. I was like red wine.
Speaker 2:I was talking about it for an hour and a half and then today I'm like, or today I feel like a beer, but yeah, I mean, I just I don't want to start drinking again and fall into the same traps and like, just be back at the same point, your wittiness is I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1:like normally, if I throw a pun or something, it'll take you a little bit to register, because my puns are like really good, they should click fast. But now it's like I could be halfway through a sentence and you're already ripping me one. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:I've upgraded from Windows 98 to iOS 16.
Speaker 1:Remember when Windows 2000 came out? Yeah, from Windows 98 to iOS 16.
Speaker 2:Remember when Windows 2000 came out. Yeah, ding, ding, ding. But now it's just the Apple logo and then I'm on, I'm on and then, like warnings are so much better, and there hasn't been a single day where I've gone. Damn, I wish I drank last night. That would have been great. Yeah, if I'd had some drinks last night.
Speaker 1:And your fit is bugger.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully, I mean hopefully all those extra calories not being consumed.
Speaker 1:I mean sweet tooth's kind of gotten a bit out of control.
Speaker 2:Hey look, you've got to have something.
Speaker 1:I agree, man. To be honest, my experience is I would rather do gummies. I hadn't done THC or any of that, but here it's like a novelty. So I was like, yeah, sure. And then I woke up one day and to amy, I was like I think I've done gummies for a week in a row. And then she's like, all right, stop. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna stop.
Speaker 2:But I love you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're such a good idea person but even for me now, like I, I feel better. I enjoy that more because my mind is always on. So I appreciate that, because I literally just go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can just sit there.
Speaker 1:I've seen you. The computer is not plugged into the wall.
Speaker 2:The computer is not plugged in, the screen's not on, it's just. It's like your face is a screensaver. It's bouncing around and you're like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I'm drinking the hangover I can't deal with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do get worse as you get older, it's true. All right, my question Okay, what's a childhood memory that had a significant impact on you and why? Wow, what's a childhood memory that had a significant impact?
Speaker 1:on you and why Wow? A childhood memory that had a significant impact on me.
Speaker 2:Feel free to take some time to think, because that's there's a lot of childhood memories, I'm sure, and obviously only if you're comfortable sharing.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is an open book. I'm just trying to think. There's so many. I was thinking can I give you a combination of memories? Sure, I'll change your question a little bit because there's not one that stands out. Well, there is, but I was thinking about it yesterday actually, so it works perfectly.
Speaker 1:Because I was talking with someone and they asked me, like what's a song that just reminds you of periods of your life? And I was like, well, this song for me is Luke Combs, even though he's leaving, and the reason why, and it's mum's favourite song as well. But the thing I love about it is it reminds me of when we're on the farm and the reason why I get up early. This is what I've told myself because I've started thinking about it. The reason why I get up early is dad was up early and he was gone by 6.30. So if I wanted to see dad, it was get up at 5 or whatever, and I'd fall asleep on the couch there down with him, but that was our time, and then same with granddad and he'd get up do the chook. So I'd get up on the farm, go do the chooks with him, check the cattle, do all that sort of stuff, and so like.
Speaker 1:two of the most important role models in my life were available at that time yeah, and so like that's now the time that I I love the mornings because of that and it's become conditioned. But then when I think about those moments I think about grandfather. I wasn't like super close because he never, you know, he was a bushy like, didn't communicate very much until he moved into Toowoomba, into the retirement village, and we built an awesome relationship in his older years and had him you know, I've got recorded conversations and I learned so much from him which was amazing.
Speaker 1:Same with dad as well. Like growing up, the only time we would, I guess, have like deep and meaningful conversations when it was about sport. So when I think about like the moments of them walking out the door, like that was pivotal, because at the time I didn't recognize it, but now I appreciate that they were. That was their way of showing love, their family, in the way that they knew how, even though all I wanted was them to stay and like.
Speaker 1:That's what makes me now, is like the fuel behind why I work so hard now, before we have kids, is because I want to be in a position where I don't have to walk out that door, because I know how meaningful it would be to a lucky junior to be able to stay. So for like those significant life events, I think about it all the time. It's like grandfather and me walking out to do the chooks and then dad like I'll walk down the stairs and I'm literally on that green recliner. We still got the green recliner. I'd walk down the stairs and I'd literally on that green recliner. We still got the green recliner. At home. I'd fucking curl up in a ball and sleep next to dad and that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that's a great memory, and I get it because our dad lives and works in Papua New Guinea and I've had those moments of just like he mustn't enjoy being around us. This is when. I was a lot younger, but that's that's him trying to provide for his family and and showing us love in the way that he knows how.
Speaker 2:And, uh, you know it, it does. It does suck that the the sacrifice has to be time without your family, to to like support them and help them to achieve their dreams. And like be there to give them the resources they need, like that all comes with that territory yeah, it's, and the pressure like I, I literally sent out a message yesterday.
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to bring it up.
Speaker 1:He didn't respond to me though, so it mustn't have gone down well, um, but yeah, like depression. Obviously I don't have a child, you, you do, so we'll talk about that in a minute as well. But I cannot imagine like I'm fucking struggling to survive now with no responsibilities. But then you think of it like. I think about dad. He provided, put us through private schools so collectively my parents did, but I think about like every day, knowing that you have to walk out the door to put food on the table, and like you're going to miss out on so many moments. Fuck, that would be hard. Like that is to me is like heart-wrenching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it can be like a prison sentence, you know, just like having a work-life balance that doesn't quite meet those family needs, doesn't give you balance, doesn't give you balance at all.
Speaker 2:You know it's like and I'm sure there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast that are in in a similar situation and they, you know, want to be able to have more time with their family, and so they work harder to try and get more money so they can have more time. But it's just this constant, like battle with time and like in.
Speaker 2:You know, living expenses are just out of control and property prices and all this stuff is just like, where does it end? How does it? How does it get better? Because you know, I'm in that same situation where I'm like I can't afford a house, like I can't even afford to, um, like put like if we, if kathleen and I, would have kids right now, it would be chaos, like it would be a complete and utter um, I don't want to say a nightmare, because they're like having a kid's a beautiful thing, yeah, but it would just be so stressful to try and like figure out how I'm going to support, uh, a family in this day and age and on a musician's wage, when it's so unpredictable. And you know, I've I've kind of got a another version of the problem where it's like I've got all the family time that I could, I could ask for, but maybe not so much the, the financial resources and like I mean I say that, but I I've moved to the other side of the world from my daughter and that's like a huge sacrifice that I'm making so that I can like hopefully build up what we've got here and this like opportunity to like showcase the band in a much bigger market to like. Help her to achieve her dreams when it when it's time to like help her buy her first car.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like all stuff that I want to be able to provide her for, but it means that I've got to like leave to do it and it's it's, you know, heartbreaking and I'm missing a lot of moments and like, luckily she's coming over to visit and it gives us an opportunity, or gives me an opportunity, to show her the world in a different kind of way. But you know, it is really hard for men out there who you know really love their families and want to support them, but in doing that they get sort of ripped away from them constantly.
Speaker 1:It's like the idea of chasing success to create happiness is the thing that pulls you away from them constantly. Yeah, it's like the idea of chasing success to create happiness is the thing that pulls you away from happiness at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like counterintuitive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and something yeah it's interesting because I think we're much more fortunate. So I think anyone who says, oh, if my parents should have done this better, it's like they were doing the best they could.
Speaker 1:They were doing the best. They were doing the best that they could. The world was completely different. If you've got the foresight to think about how you want your life to be now, then cool, do that. But you know, I appreciate and just as I'm sure you do. It's like what our parents did to give us what they like. That's fucking sacrifice, like it's. It's crazy. And as I've gotten older and I think about it more and try to see things through their eyes, like, wow, could I have done that? I don't think I could have Like I.
Speaker 2:it's like our parents are the most selfless people that you can imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fucking crazy. I sent this message to dad yesterday at seven, oh seven, and dad, if you're listening to this, and you still haven't responded it is back.
Speaker 2:Would you want 800-696-249?
Speaker 1:Hit me up. I said, dad, just want you to know in case no one has told you, you nailed it as a dad. You managed to provide for a family of five. Give us every opportunity we could have ever wanted. Not many people can say they did that. You sacrificed so much to do that. Everything I've learned about hard work and sacrifice comes from you. Oh mate.
Speaker 2:He's probably still in tears. To be honest, he's trying to pull himself together after that one.
Speaker 1:That's a lovely message, yeah, well, but it's like this is one thing that the podcast gives me is like even your questions. You're going to send me those because then I can every morning I write and I think and the better questions that people give me like the reason why I thought about that was from a podcast I had a couple of days ago and I wrote the question down and then I'll write about it in the morning and actually think about it.
Speaker 2:Oh, you want to sorry, I should stop deleting the questions as I ask them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you doing that? Oh, no, no, because at the moment, like I'm giving the best answer that I can off the cuff, but I do believe that if I were to think about them I could. Probably it'd be a fun experience to think about more life-changing. You know, stuff like that. I always like thinking about it because much to our first point, before we even started, was like when you reflect on memories, like if you only think about the significant things, you miss out on all the funny stories or the small little moments that actually make up something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, brilliant, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but anyway back.
Speaker 2:What's my question?
Speaker 1:Yes, here we go. Well, we'll keep it on. Actually, I want to talk about this one first, and then we'll go back Four months apart from your wife this year. What toll did that take on you personally, and did it make you question, chasing the dream here in America? Oh, it was the best.
Speaker 2:Divorced. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding Kathleen.
Speaker 1:No, it was I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding kathleen. Um, no, it was, it was.
Speaker 2:They didn't come racing in now I heard that, um, honestly it was, it was a sacrifice, it was a struggle like and I obviously love it. I love having her around and she's such a positive influence on my life and and she's the same same as amy is on yours. You know she's so supportive of everything I do and there's a million billion reasons that she could have walked away over the last 10 years 11 years but she stuck by me and she only had to go home out of necessity because she has another job and she couldn't work in America and money was getting kind of tight. It was a real struggle on both of us. But I think, at the end of the day, we've done this before.
Speaker 2:We've been apart for four months while I've been on tour and we know that we can survive. And you know, I just look at my parents who have been apart dad's lived in papua new guinea and mom's been in brisbane. They're still married and together and in love, but for the last 15 years they've not had that like same, like household connection, and I just like I think if they can do that, then we can do four months and we know, at the end of the day, we're coming home, you're coming back. We're going to be together Like you're my one and only love, and I feel that trust from her and I I trust her. So like there's, there's no question about it and it's just a waiting game, it's just about patience.
Speaker 2:Um, and it also gave me like a good amount of like time and space to work on my own stuff. Like I'm I I find it very hard to like have that space to do my creative stuff and that's why I'm always up at night and, like you know I'm a night owl, because that's the I find it very hard to like have that space to do my creative stuff and that's why I'm always up at night and late. You know I'm a night owl because that's the time when no one's around. Kathleen and you said it with Amy the other day it's like as soon as your wife walks into view, you're just like stop what you're doing.
Speaker 2:What, what do you need? How can I help? You know you want to that supportive partner and that that husband instinct kicks in and you like it's hard to kind of get into that flow state of work. So I was kind of grateful for that space to be able to like work on my production and songwriting and, you know, just have the apartment to myself for that. But you know, I really did miss her a lot and I kind of wished that it wasn't so far away, like Australia is is not just a bus ride it Like Australia is-.
Speaker 2:It's not just a bus ride, it's such a long way. I mean you can be there in 24 hours but it's just such a mission to get over there and to get back here. And yeah, I mean I don't think it took a toll on our relationship. It definitely had moments of struggle and hopelessness and, like you know, there were times when Kathleen would call me and she's just like I feel like I'm missing out on your life, you know, and it can be.
Speaker 1:How does it feel to hear that?
Speaker 2:It's really hard, like I mean, what, what? What can you say to it, being other than like you're not missing out on too much. It's just four months and you know you're, you're going to be that, have that reassurance. And um, yeah, there were definitely more than a few phone calls of tears and, like you know that, that heartache of being separated and, um, you know, obviously it wasn't what we'd planned for our first year of marriage being separated, but uh, you know, we got through it and I think in the end it just makes us stronger and distance makes the heart grow fonder.
Speaker 1:And, uh, that first night back, let me tell you I was not expecting that I was caught off guard, I was just kidding, I was just, she was too jet lagged I was like wow, this, this guy is just pouring his heart out and then pouring more than his heart out.
Speaker 2:No, I was about to say it was a really lovely cuddle. But no, I was really proud of both of us for getting through that, and especially Kathleen, because she was back home and like, once you've left and we've been back to Australia since and you kind of get that feeling of like, okay, we've left this behind, we've got something else that's going on. You know, you're kind of itching to get back out and continue the adventure while it's happening. And she was back home watching all of our stories and seeing all the things that we were doing and was just like had the biggest FOMO that you could imagine.
Speaker 1:I would have been tough, yeah, yeah, but it's inspiring, like I always observe people like to to learn and like watching how you guys did that and obviously I've you know when Amy goes on tour. I've spent months apart as well, so I know what it feels like. But even now it's like so inspiring how you guys just make it work, and it's like you did it for a reason obviously cash and closing up the business and all that sort of stuff. But rather than and what I'm proud of you for, as well as rather than just drinking and whatever like you have been insanely productive, like writing nearly every day. Produce, like even the other day when I was like, oh, why don't you just get such and such to make that, you're like, well, I might as well learn it. Things like that I've never really heard you say outside of music. And so to do all these things, I'm like fucking hell. I feel like all six of us at the moment are the closest we've ever been. We're all just doing whatever the fuck is required of us to….
Speaker 2:Support one another.
Speaker 1:To support one another, to support one another and it's awesome like it's I've never seen anything quite like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're very lucky to have the family netflix get it netflix give us a call um.
Speaker 1:But yes, yes, my question uh, I've already been rolling 46 minutes how long do do they go for?
Speaker 2:usually as long as you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as long as I talk to the host.
Speaker 2:If you could instantly gain a new skill or talent, what would it be and why?
Speaker 1:To be honest, it's the guitar. If I could play it like the way you do when I watch you do it and just it was going to be.
Speaker 2:I'm not the greatest guitar player, by the way. I'm like.
Speaker 1:I just make it work, as someone who doesn't know the difference between a guitar and a banjo, like it's quite incredible.
Speaker 2:They do look very similar.
Speaker 1:No, I think I don't know. I feel like a lot of the skills that I've developed in life have always been for trying to improve my career, so I like the idea now of building skills that adjust for me. Like I've always enjoyed music. Like I started the drums for one semester at school, got bullied so I stopped where it's like I've always loved it you got bullied for playing the drums.
Speaker 2:That's like the coolest thing to do you're banging on skins, you loser playing in rhythm.
Speaker 1:Being in rock bands, I definitely wasn't in rhythm. I was playing Maroon 5, she will be loved they were just jealous mate but I'm coming back.
Speaker 1:But I think for me it's just like therapeutic. If I can find ways where I don't think about always having to be better, in the sense of like, how is this going to help my career, then it's like a really nice way for me to switch off. So, gummies and guitar, gummies and guitars yeah, there's something about it. It's the name of the episode right there Gummies and guitar. It's the name of the episode right there Gummies and guitar. I think that would be my skill, without thinking about it too much.
Speaker 2:What about you? I'd probably want like the gift of the gab in terms of like being able to like have quick comebacks, no matter what. I think you're pretty Like I'm talking like Pete Davidson level of just like comedy wit, where it's like I can just get up and improvise whatever on stage and just like have funny stuff just free-flowing out of me, like that would be my, my one skill that I'd want you could literally chat to chat pt like just say, hey, I want to develop this skill.
Speaker 1:Let's have conversations.
Speaker 2:You know, you can voice note it now oh yeah and just talk to it like because remember was it you or someone where I was, like, imagine just as like a goal doing one set of stand-up, because that freaks the shit out of me yeah, I know that would be so terrifying but that's like how you develop that skill right I guess, I guess, yeah, just kind of got to step outside that that comfort zone, but like that, that bloke that you got to do that he was hilarious, he was unreal, yeah he won that night, he won the competition and it was like yeah of course you're good at it like you actually are good at it and um, because he came to you and he's like I really want to do this.
Speaker 1:I think I could do this, but it's just scary to do it yeah I'm like I don't think I could do this I definitely don't think I can do this, even on this on the podcast.
Speaker 2:When I hear people crack humor, I'm like I wish I could do that yeah I'm just like always thinking deep, like too deeply, about things, yeah, which I hate and like on stage, I'd love to just be, like you know, interacting with the crowd and just like have some like wholesome, funny, great thing, to just chat about with people on the with, with their signs and stuff, like Keith Urban's really good at it, chris Martin's really good at it, like just relating to a crowd with, you know, just charming wit, like that's something I'm not like the best at.
Speaker 2:So I kind of want to improve in that area. That would be my skill.
Speaker 1:Well, I look forward to watching you do it on this next tour, that's for sure. All right. Your question, all right. What is the biggest fear that you have in life?
Speaker 2:Spiders, probably. Oh God, I, I, my, my biggest fear was always like not not leaving a legacy, like something to leave behind, to like remember that I was here like a footprint, like a flag and on the moon just being like bang, I was here. Um, growing up, I was always kind of like scared that that wasn't going to happen, like I always wanted to be an actor, you know, so that I could be in movies, because it was such a you know.
Speaker 1:They're here forever yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I want to be in a classic movie that's remembered in like film history. Or, you know, I want to write a song that stands the test of time and in like 50 years time, people are still listening to this song. My, my fear was kind of like just failing at both of those things. And, you know, getting a job at like walmart and just kind of like being stuck because I don't have any other like educations or skills or anything like I'm. I'm kind of screwed if, if music doesn't work out, because it's like I'm sure there's like a job that I could go and do, but like I don't have a resume. I've been in a band for the last 11 years and before that my only job was supra and supra, supra, and you worked at supra. I worked at supra.
Speaker 2:I thought it would be a great place to like meet women yeah, and it was the worst quality of women that passed through these doors. I was just like, oh, no, uh, it wasn't, it was not a great time for me, and they put me on the change rooms. I was the guy that like unlocked the change rooms for people and you know, I was, I was like 17 and I, I was not cut out for that job.
Speaker 2:I can imagine you wouldn't have people like trying to sneak out their like shoplifting clothes and stuff and I'm like, hey, is that a thing in your bra? And they're like, what Pervert get out? And I'm like, ugh, I love you, like I'm not, but you're stealing. Ugh, I don't know what the line is here.
Speaker 1:I don't know what to do, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean like it always had to work out for me in that sense of like I need to be something bigger than I am. I don't know Like I've always been scared of fading into oblivion, like that would be my biggest fear. And even if it's like not you know, on charts or movies or whatever, like being forgotten about by your family or like being my biggest fear, this is, this is my real answer.
Speaker 1:This is my final answer. It's important to think it out yeah, no, it is.
Speaker 2:Uh, my, my biggest fear was like falling to alcoholism and pissing everybody else off in my life so far, like like so badly that I got abandoned and like I didn't have any friends. I had my family didn't know how to, and it never got that bad, but it was like definitely a big motivator in in doing this year of sobriety, Cause you know, there was there were times when Kathleen was just like I don't, I don't know what to do with you. I've asked you to go to therapy. I've, like, you know, I've tried to talk it out with you, I've tried to tell you how I feel about it, and I would never listen and it was just like that addiction or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know the alcohol kind of telling me that it was okay and that it was just having a good time. Or you know the alcohol kind of telling me that it was okay and that it was just having a good time. Or you know, I could have let it go a lot worse and that's a steep slope and it's a slippery slope that can end with you just being homeless, you know, and no friends or family in the world that care about you anymore. So that was a big fear for me is like losing my wife because of alcohol it's yeah going back to.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's so many fears yeah, well, I always think about like, because that's a pretty big one, because you know people go spiders and shit and it's like no, well, there's for most people there's a big fear that drives behavior yeah why we do. And when you said like it's amounting to none, that's me. It's like I want my life to mean something I think, I think deep down, everybody does. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's just at some point some people give up on that. I don't know. It's like people settle for all right, I'm safe, I'm secure in this job. It means that I'm going to be able to put food on the table. But I'm not necessarily happy. They just sort of fall into that and then it becomes like this gray, repetitive life that they just allow to continue, whereas, like how many people would have packed up their lives and moved to the other side of the world to try and be in a pop band.
Speaker 1:Like it just seems like a stupid decision to make. But I think what's even more incredible about it was where, all in our 30s, we all had established careers Like. That to me is like in the 20s, you know sweet, like when you're early 20s, but like the fact that we did it now is even more exciting and risky.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's like this is the time when we should be settling down, secure in our jobs, getting promotions, yet knocking out the children, buying houses and being like cool, where, where we've got a solid foundation here to build a life and instead we were like let's waste all our life savings moving to the other side of the world where we know nobody and we're going to try and make it in the hardest industry on earth, in the biggest country for music, and it's like any sane person would be like that's, that's a silly decision.
Speaker 2:Do not do that. Yeah, go back rewind, get that job, get the promotion, go, do that thing. But I don't, but I don't think I could have lived with myself.
Speaker 1:I don't think any of us could. There's not one of us that I'd be like. Oh yeah, they could do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're all too, and there's not like I don't want anybody out there to think that if you do go the other way and you've got the promotion and you've got the house and you've got the kids, and that's awesome, that's what you're supposed to be doing, you're happy, yeah, and if you, you know that security and that, like stability and that routine is what you're craving and that's what you want to do, then that's awesome. Um, and you know you don't have to be famous to leave a legacy. You know, it's like your kids can be your legacy, and if you've raised beautiful children that have, like, grown up into contributing amazing members of society, then that's your legacy, you know, and that's important. So it doesn't need to be like a song that stands the test of time. It's like it can be a bunch of different things.
Speaker 1:It's just about what's important to you yeah, defining that a bonus question on top of that, because you have, like geronimo's, one of those timeless songs and it just is always in the chart still you're wearing the shirt, so that says something and the merchandise is still running hot head to the website. We are shepherdcom. Where can you get that luck?
Speaker 2:use the mannequin discount code tm tcp sorry, let me just crack another tinny here.
Speaker 1:Get it going coconut water Friday, arby. But you've achieved that. So is that still a fear? And two questions answer it. But do you still fear that? Because I believe you've done that with the song. And secondly, do you fear alcohol controlling or ruining you still?
Speaker 2:There's definitely like a bit of pressure that's been taken off because, no matter what, there are four albums out in the world that we've put out and they are ours and they mean something to a certain moment in our lives and people really enjoy them. And yeah, I mean Geronimo has been a worldwide you know Phenomenon.
Speaker 2:I don't want to say, I don't want to say the word phenomenon, but it it definitely, uh, opened a lot of doors for us around the world and a lot of people know that song and that that is really special to me, that we've been able to like put our little stamp on australian music history.
Speaker 2:Um, so there's that sort of pressure that's been taken off, but I don't want it to be the only thing like I want to be known for a career of, like great songs and, you know, being able to put on shows that like encapsulate people and make people excited and inspired, and like I want to have that effect on a grand scale, yeah, um, on humanity and uh, I don't think I've achieved that yet, so I I want to get there. But also, yeah, I'm definitely always scared about alcohol being like a, uh, a hindrance, because it it it can be a tool in certain aspects of like, you know, going out and networking and you know I'll, I'll be more personable, like I'll be.
Speaker 2:The inhibitions are like, not as the bravery gravy we call it. You know when you can talk to people and like, oh, you're Garth Brooks manager, that's okay, cause I've had a beer and I'm feeling good, and instead of it being just like yep, you know a bit more stilted and stiff about it and it's just like, yeah, it's about like, removing inhibitions and a lot of creativity is about getting into that flow state where you're not thinking about anything, the noise is not there in your head and you can just like flow and create freely. That's always the goal to get into, and alcohol, unfortunately, can help you get there. Um, so, yeah, I mean, I'm definitely worried about it when we start up again.
Speaker 2:I really don't want to fall back into the same traps and pitfalls of just like, you know, drinking on your own and and using it as like a writing tool and like every night, just like, oh, I'll just have a glass of wine, that's cool, and then, before you know it, the whole bottle's gone and you're like just having the greatest time jamming out. But then, you know, kathleen comes out. She's like, what are you doing? And it's like, oh, I'll come to bed now, I'll come to bed and then tripping over yourself, yeah, and it's just not like.
Speaker 2:I wish it didn't come with those other negative aspects yeah and then you feel like shit the next day and you're not productive, whatever, whatever, whatever. So, yeah, I don't want it to like creep into my life again and do all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I still want to be able to enjoy it when it when it is appropriate. Delicious, Delicious. I hope I'm giving you lots to talk about.
Speaker 1:Should we do one more question, each One more? Yeah, okay, all right, an hour 27. Okay, all right, we're at hour 27, that's a good car ride for people. Okay, all right, we can go longer if you want, but I thought can we do two questions?
Speaker 2:yeah, because there's two. I really want to ask you, all right now I'm nervous oh, who's this?
Speaker 1:it's dad.
Speaker 2:This is your dad gotta put it on the vlog. What's he?
Speaker 1:gonna say I saw the vlog. I should ask his permission before I filmed that.
Speaker 2:But that was going to be him going.
Speaker 1:I love you mate just just you sent him that message and you just hung up on his call I'm sorry, I'm just on a podcast where we're talking about the message I sent you all right.
Speaker 2:Well, I can um while you're doing that, I'll I'll ask this question very, very slowly I'm listening, so that I can give you time you have my full attention. Have you ever forgiven someone for doing something unforgivable?
Speaker 1:Have I ever forgiven someone for?
Speaker 2:doing something unforgivable. And you can say no, because it was unforgivable.
Speaker 1:Can I say myself yeah, of course you can say no, because it was unforgivable. Can I say myself? Yeah, of course you can. I'm just trying to think of any examples from other people that I would feel would be unforgivable.
Speaker 2:Has anyone done you dirty? Anybody cheated on you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely happened and I've done the same back. But I don't really hold any yeah. So, to answer your question, I have, like I've definitely forgiven people for at the time, what was the most significant experience that I'd had? But also, I know I've done the same back to people. Like I find it hard to. If you'd met like pre-Amy Lockie, I held a lot of grudges and was an angry person. Never forgive people, but that's because I had never forgiven myself for certain things.
Speaker 1:I think because now, in order to forgive yourself, or in order for me to forgive myself, I've had to recognize that I'm not perfect. I'm doing the best that I can with what I know, and so everyone else is in that same boat. So, for people who have hurt me, whether it's intentionally or unintentionally, and whether they've wanted to make amends for that or not, and likewise, whether I've wanted to make amends for it or not, we're doing. The've wanted to make amends for it or not. We're doing the best that we can and that's fine. I feel like, yeah, I'm not bitter about anyone. I can't think of a single person, even for myself. It's like all the stuff that I-.
Speaker 2:Forgiving people is mainly for yourself anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2:I'm letting go of all this animosity that I feel towards you and as much as you've done me wrong and you know that was unforgivable I'm not going to carry that around and be a burden on my shoulders. Yeah, so I'm going to let that go.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good lesson for everyone to take away like yeah, I, I, everyone's done shit wrong. Yeah, and if you hold on to it, it's like you're punishing yourself for no reason, like you. May as well move on with it and learn that lesson.
Speaker 2:So no good, okay yeah, that was your question, not my question. We got to rush through these, all right all right, all right all right, all right now.
Speaker 1:Can you pass me my ipad? Yes, sir thank you here here's your iPad iPad delivery. So over here I'm recording on iPhones, which means I don't have access to my iPhone to show you this photo. Is this pornographic?
Speaker 2:It's you dressed up in a baby suit at your bus. So yes, it is pornographic, oh no. It's gratuitous.
Speaker 1:Uh-oh, have you lost it? No, emma sent it to me before.
Speaker 2:I've gone in there and deleted it. Pre-game.
Speaker 1:Oh no, here it is, got it, got it, got it, got it. So this photo here there's some people in it with you.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I would love you to talk me through the this is on my box. Dude, don't worry about the situation. Listen to the way you want to be remembered by these people and, yeah, we'll just rip from there. I can't even think now. It feels like an intervention.
Speaker 2:It feels like an intervention. I fully thought you were going to show me a photo of me with my pants down, like hanging over the balcony.
Speaker 1:The next minute your whole family walks in yeah, shit down my legs.
Speaker 2:I'm just drunk as fuck. Like, is this how you want people to remember me? That's a very sweet photo. Yeah, yeah, that's me and my two sisters. I look like I'm about six and a half. Emma's six months old amy is should be three or three and a half. Very, very cute photo. What was your question?
Speaker 1:you just got mesmerized by the cuteness of it. Yeah, it is. What is how? How do you want to be remembered by your sisters, um?
Speaker 2:like a bloody legend. No, I I kind of want to be. You know, I'm the oldest brother, I the older brother. I want to sort of be known for caring about them and for taking care of them through their younger years, which I kind of I think I did, and I mean I was at boarding school for a lot of it. So I kind of missed out on Emma's formative, like from six to 12 or 13 or whatever, but I feel like I was a good brother. I feel like I'm still a good brother. I love my sisters very much and I'll do anything to support them. And the fact that we've continued on in this journey together as close as ever in our 30s we're still those three kids just hanging out and having fun and just playing together and you know, getting to share the stage with them is just a real honor you know, I feel like maybe early on we were like, oh, I don't know if it's gonna, it's gonna be lame to bring my sisters along and everything.
Speaker 2:and it's like when you're on tour, world tour, and mom's there and all this stuff, you're like I just want to be with my friends man.
Speaker 1:Like hanging out my young dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I'm so grateful, looking back now, that we've had all of these like incredible memories together as a family. And, yeah, I mean I don't know what else I could say apart from how grateful I am that I have them in my lives still to this day and that we're not living in different countries and separated and, like you know, seeing each other once at Christmas and that's it for two weeks. But we we've kind of built a life together with our partners and I just think that's the coolest thing ever what message?
Speaker 1:so you said something that you weren't around for Emma's formative years. What? What would you have wanted her to know at that point?
Speaker 2:well, I just knew that she looked up to me and I knew that she was proud of me as as a brother and I'd just like to have been around more to like show her how much I loved her as well. Like you know, whenever I'd come back from uh, high school like boarding school for holidays, she'd like have made me all these like pictures about how much she missed me. And like, come back from high school, like boarding school for holidays, she'd like have made me all these like pictures about how much she missed me. And like she wrote me letters and you know it was like I missed her a lot because of that. You know, and I knew how much she looked up to me and I just I hope that I'm still today that man, that or that that guy that she looked up to when she was younger.
Speaker 1:What about Aishep?
Speaker 2:She can go to hell. No, amy's always Amy's always been a very, very lovely, level-headed sister. She's she's very intelligent, even though she probably doesn't think she is. She's very much, even though she probably doesn't think she is, she's very much. Um, you know, the one, the one sibling out of the three of us, who, in a crisis, actually, like, can keep a level head and be like no, no, no, we've, we've got this, we got to get through this. No, no, no, no, like she doesn't, uh, she doesn't want to live in my shadow or anything like that, which is totally fair enough.
Speaker 2:And I feel, like you know, a lot of, a lot of the shepherd experience has been her kind of stepping to the side so that I can take the songs or whatever, because that's been the, the sound of shepherd when it's, um, you know something, we all started together and, like you know, I have a lot of respect and admiration for her in doing that, because, you know, obviously Geronimo was a was a hit, and then after that it was kind of like the radio wanted to hear my voice on songs, cause having a female singing shepherd songs was too confusing and all this stuff. That was like we've always written songs for her in shepherd. But it's always kind of like my songs have been the singles and the ones that kind of get the the big push, which would have been very hard for her, like, I think, especially in the early days when it was like her dream to be a musician and she was the one who really wanted to start the band. And, um, you know I have I have a lot of respect for amy because you know it wouldn't have been easy and it's like a very team mentality to kind of play that game as well and be like all right, the radio is going to play the songs you sing, we're going to, we're going to write the songs for you.
Speaker 2:And um, she's now thankfully been able to start up her own country music project because, like that's her project, that's her, her baby, and she gets to like take the stage, center stage. Every show that she does it's about Amy Shepard and it's like I'm really glad that she's getting that recognition now, cause I think she deserves it. But she's, um, you know she's been my partner in crime since we were like super young, like I, we were, we, we were like super young, like I, we were, we were the closest in age, so we had more in common, I think, than maybe Emma and I did growing up, but uh, yeah, she's been my songwriting partner and my, my band partner and my creative partner for, you know, 15 years now.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm very grateful to have them both in my life and I hope they're feeling the same way we'll get a rebuttal.
Speaker 1:We'll figure that one out, post that to the fans.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a pretty nice, nice spot to end it, but I did have one final question that I wanted to ask you. Can I ask it? Because, I don't know, ruin the episode I don't know if you'll be able to answer it all right if it's like the price of something or no, how do you deal with feelings of failure and inadequacy?
Speaker 1:Fucking hell.
Speaker 2:What? Let me just clear it up for anyone listening Not well, loggie's the most competitive person that I know, and any time that something's not going in the direction of him winning or being like a champion, it's it's. It eats away at him.
Speaker 1:so I want to hear, I want to hear from the horses now well, I like and this probably goes back to my answer around what is a skill that I would like to learn? I don't invent sorry, I'm changing that. I previously I had not invested time in things that weren't gonna, that I couldn't be the best in Everything that I do. I just go 100% because I don't see the point of I didn't see the point of doing it any other way because, going back to the whole thing, it's like I want my life to mean something. So why would I? I still remember so when I moved back from France, right? So the dream of playing professional rugby, getting paid to do what I loved, was ended, and so I didn't watch rugby. Why would I watch the people who were doing what I wanted to be doing?
Speaker 1:I need to work my ass off in something else to be able to do that, and that's. You know, it's probably layered from dad, from granddad, like that hard work thing, but I want my life to mean something. So whenever I choose to do something that it's podcasting, building a business, running, whatever it's like, I'm gonna do it to the best and not not always to compete to the best, but I know that if I want to get the best out of myself. I got to find someone that I can create a little wall within my head to to make myself do the things that I otherwise wouldn't do, because most people need someone to chase. Yeah Well, I feel like most people. I fear sleeping in, like doing all these things, not only because it was that special moment, but it's also like I'm the most disciplined person I know, because I know that most people aren't, so that, for me, is my advantage. I'm not the most talented in anything but my work ethics, what's always helped me with everything that I've done so failure is not an option.
Speaker 1:Failure is not an option. But now it's like I'm learning as I get older to be like I can suck at the guitar. I can. I can still have fun with things and I'm starting to get better at that, like even running. Now I'm not doing it to compete, I'm doing it to like how far can I push my body? So like the goal has changed, but if people want to compete with me, I still love to compete well, thanks for having me on lucky man, that was it, that was fun am I the?
Speaker 2:am I the most frequent guest you've had on the podcast?
Speaker 1:you would be now just trying. Oh no, forrest, this is four. Yeah, forrest has done six. Six, yeah, forrest, and I do every Christmas let's do another two now. Let's go, let's let's chop that up into three. We can do. Can it be fun to do this like every couple of months? Yeah, I, I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Anytime.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming on, man, it's been awesome.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:Everybody Enjoy and you can go follow George's journey on his daily YouTube set.
Speaker 2:George's journal. It's called George's journal on.
Speaker 1:YouTube Journal Get there, take care, hooray.
