Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Welcome to Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart—the podcast dedicated to empowering men to break through barriers and achieve their full potential.
Hosted by Lachlan Stuart, this show dives deep into the challenges men face, offering actionable insights, real-life stories, and expert advice. Whether you're focused on fitness, business, personal growth, or fatherhood, you'll find inspiration and tools here to help you rise above any challenge and become the man that can.
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Tune in, get inspired, and start living the life you’ve always wanted.
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Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Facing Fear, Surviving a Life-Changing Accident, and Finding Purpose | Ben Lucock #629
Join Lachie Stuart as he sits down with Ben Lucock, a paramedic, former base jumper, and co-creator of the documentary Impact. In this powerful episode, Ben shares his journey of adrenaline-fueled adventures, the mental and physical toll of a life-changing accident, and the profound lessons learned through resilience and fatherhood.
Key takeaways include:
◦ The mindset required for extreme sports like skydiving and base jumping
◦ Overcoming depression and the importance of mental health awareness
◦ How to embrace mistakes, take ownership, and move forward with purpose
◦ The lessons fatherhood teaches about living in the moment
◦ Ben’s story is one of strength, vulnerability, and redemption. Don’t miss this inspiring conversation!
https://hota.com.au/whats-on/live/event/impact-documentary
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Do Something Today To Be Better For Tomorrow
This conversation has discussions around suicide.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the man that Can Project with Lockie Stewart. This week we have another member of the dynamic duo from the Impact film that you guys have been hearing a lot about. It's Ben Leukok. Benny, thanks for joining me on the show.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having us mate.
Speaker 2:I think you're at your in-laws at the moment. We've got the Harry Potter collection in the background, which just jumped out at me, funnily enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's making me look intelligent.
Speaker 2:It's one of the greatest tips of all time is putting a bookcase behind you when you're on a podcast.
Speaker 1:Is it? I'm assuming?
Speaker 2:When I was living back here in Australia at our studio, when we had one back home, I had this fancy bookcase and people were like, oh, you read that I'm like nah, that's just an image, mate.
Speaker 1:Standing in front of a green screen really Exactly.
Speaker 2:But, mate, it's great to have you on here today and, as I was saying last week with Lucha's episode, I really just wanted to get on here and get to know a little bit more about you, and you're obviously a paramedic and an avid. You do base jumping as well, right, which is I think it's even more insane than skydiving well, I'm a retired base jumper.
Speaker 1:I think I probably refer to myself these days.
Speaker 2:I haven't jumped for a few years now, so as much as I miss it and I think about it a lot.
Speaker 1:It's um, I haven't done it for a few years and it's probably not on the cards for a couple more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's it like? Like base jumping. All I picture is like you're on this beautiful cliff, face something that's great for photos, and next minute you're deciding to jump off it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's the most incredible feeling, it's the biggest adrenaline dump you'll probably ever get. But, like I said to a lot of people, I enjoy every aspect of bayes charming. I enjoy the camping in the mountains, you know um the hiking at dark time and you just the all the unique views you get of the valley. And, like you said, you arrive to this location, you might have a little bit of breakfast up the top there, maybe watch the sun come up and you know, I'm sure you've probably been to the mountains before.
Speaker 1:Just they hold they breathe like they actually breathe, the way that the sun hits them and the heat generates in the valley. Yeah, um, there's awesome energy. And then obviously getting a um, a quick way back down is the cherry on top does it?
Speaker 2:is it, yeah, that initial jump? Do you ever find yourself struggling to just take that step? Or are you just that excited you're ready to rumble?
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, I'm always terrified absolutely petrified and I think if you weren't scared, you'd probably. You know, take a good look at why you're actually doing it, because there's a lot of risk. You know, once you get into the sport, you lose a lot of risk. Um, you know, once you get into the sport, you lose a lot of friends to the sport, and so you really got to love it, you got to enjoy it. Um, you have to have a respect for it. Um, yeah, and if you, the more obviously the scared you are, the bigger the rush you get once it's successful.
Speaker 1:So for sure, it's a great feeling, but there's that, that sense of like, absolutely petrified when you're on the edge, but obviously, um, in the wingsuits I mostly jumped in the wingsuits once, once you leave the cliff, like once you feel yourself you've leant forward, you're committed, you can't step back, that sensation of once you leave the cliff is just, uh, unbelievable.
Speaker 2:So and you're just trusting this wingsuit. Yeah, yeah, with base jumping, because I've skydived twice and I think that's more than enough for me now. But obviously I haven't jumped solos. I've never had that experience, because you have have old buds strapped to your back when you're learning the base jump. Is there the same thing, or you should already sort of know how to like? There's no tandem base jumping, is there?
Speaker 1:There is. These days there's tandem base jumping, but it's not utilized as an instruction thing, it's a joy thing. So it's for people that want to get the sensation of a base jump but don't want to do the years of training and all that kind of things leading up to it. Basically, with base jumping you just rely on skydiving as training. So I think I had about 700 jumps before I did a base jump, um 700 skydives that is. And then I found a really good mentor and you just get someone to teach you that that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's wild. 700 jumps, that is very impressive. But can we go back a little bit like before you got into skydiving? Give everyone a bit of a I guess quick snapshot on what life was like for you growing up, how you got into, what drew you to wanting to be a paramedic and then also to skydiving as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I've always been like a sporting enthusiast. So obviously all through high school I was, um, a very keen bodyboarder so I was in the surf every day. I was right into that and, um, I think I've always been pretty intense. It's something that, like, I wanted to be good at. So I just lived and breathed it the ocean and then I moved into, I think I went from that to wrestling and I just lived and breathed that and then I moved into kite surfing, went back to the ocean and then I got into motorbikes. I was right into like racing road bikes for a few years, wow. And then somehow I think I watched it on youtube. I didn't have any friends that did it. I watched base jumping on YouTube and I just thought that has to be the most incredible feeling, like flying a wingsuit down a cliff.
Speaker 1:It's got to be unbelievable. You know, I had that speed feeling from motorbikes and I was like, oh, this just kind of captures every adrenaline area. And, funnily enough, like growing up as a kid, I was like almost laughable, terrified of heights. Like the first time we lived in a two-story house, I think I was like 10 or 12 years old. To get into the two-story house it was a split level, so someone lived downstairs and we lived upstairs. So to get up into where we we lived, it was an outdoor staircase and the day we moved in I couldn't go up the stairs. That's how bad my fear of heights was.
Speaker 1:Wow yeah, I'd get scared in the car, going around roundy mountains, like I think. Once you kind of come out of the back end of puberty, I had this sense to like I I loved the achievement of overcoming fears. I was just so addicted to it.
Speaker 2:Base jumping seemed like the opposite end of the spectrum to um living in fear of heights for sure yeah, like I can, I watch I was saying this to lose like skydiving videos and also like wing suits and stuff, and I find it very therapeutic to watch. It's a different story when I've jumped out of a plane, like just sweaty palms being like fuck, like I agree, it's the most freeing feeling when you get there. But I think, as you said a moment ago, like you've lost friends to the sport and there's just so many things that I've been made aware of that I'm like I don't know whether I could risk that feeling for it yeah, now I'm a father of two year old these days.
Speaker 1:It's one of the reasons I probably won't jump for a long time, so so yeah you have that risk, risk versus reward thing, and when you're single and doing your own thing, that doesn't seem to matter. So that's true, that's fair, yeah, but um, I guess the main difference to skydiving is, like you know once, once you get in that plane, it's very loud, there's lots of other people there, the green light says go, you know, you kind of usher it out the door, essentially, yeah, whereas base jumping is a, you know, a self-regulated sport.
Speaker 1:Really you can hike any mountain and you can sit there for hours, whether you're waiting for a weather window or you know know, just waiting for that right time, for all the nerves to calm down. You're like right, I'm gonna suit up and and have a go like.
Speaker 2:So it's really nice having that kind of aspect to it, I think the freeing feeling of it all so what, um, what was it that made you want to get into paramedics, like, was there anything in your upbringing you? You just sort of got to that age where you're like all right, I need to pick something on a board, and this is what I feel like doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think. Well, I was a builder for years.
Speaker 1:Oh, really, yeah, I was a chippy for seven years, almost eight years, and I really liked it. I think it was a good job. I liked the ideas on building sites and rewarding you know, very visually rewarding thought I wasn't bad at it. And then, I think during the GFC, when it kind of hit Australia was like 2009 or something a lot of work dried up. I think I was installing Foxtel, transition the truck, a little bit of cable work and, yeah, installed Foxtel for six months or a year or something, while the building trade kind of picked back up.
Speaker 1:And I think it was during that time I did a first aid course and the guy came in and he was talking about how he'd gone to an accident and you know how he'd made all these like critical thinking on the fly decisions. You know he's like I've got to this car and I'm doing this and I'm moving on. Just that whole cascade of thinking about lots of different things in sequence and being able to make a decision and all that kind of stuff. It was like a faster version of building. Really, you know yeah and um. That appealed to me. So I think after the gfc I was a little bit lost and I was like, oh, I've seen it got advertised paramedics New South Wales. Throw my hat in the ring and see how I go, because I didn't really see myself as being uni material. So they offered like a traineeship in the paramedics Really, yeah, so it's just kind of like four years of training on the job.
Speaker 2:Because it is a university degree.
Speaker 1:Now, right, I think is it. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty much these days it's purely university. But they offer this traineeship where they you kind of do it in segments and, um, you go back, learn a few more skills, they send you back out there. You can do a bit extra. You come back, they train you up again, go back out there. That's how I kind of got. Well, in the end you just end up with a diploma. You don't know the degree, but you're still fully qualified and I do everything same as someone that has the degree. So that's yeah. So, being a hands-on learner, that appealed to me and somehow they let me in and now I enjoy it it's wild.
Speaker 2:I yeah, I got a lot of respect, obviously for the first responders, and the work that you guys do, like some of the stuff that you see, and how you manage that like even mentally and emotionally, is something that I admire and I just can't seem to get my head around how you guys do that Like. It's so admirable but I think my stomach's too weak to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the bad jobs are pretty few and far between. They're probably not as often as people think, but yeah, I mean they do add up for sure. I've been doing it for 13 years now so, and there's a lot of jobs over that time. I can still remember very clearly. And then, yeah, it's about having like a probably the same as anything.
Speaker 1:It's about having a good network of mates, particularly in the job, that understand the job and we kind of debrief and touch bases every now and then, just get that sense of like it's okay that you know these jobs might kind of hurt you a little bit here and there, but you know, at the end of the day we do a good work and it probably affects us because we are conscious and analytical of the situation and how we might have been able to do it better or different or anything like that. So that's what keeps us improving.
Speaker 2:Had you already started skydiving by this point?
Speaker 1:I think I started skydiving just after I joined the job. Yeah, because I sold my motorbikes as I joined the job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, because you started. What 2017, I think I read somewhere Was that Looch.
Speaker 1:No, think I've read somewhere. Is that luge? Um no, I started the same year I joined the job, so be about 13 years been skydiving as well.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, yeah, so moving that there 2012 or something 2011 yeah, and what was it that sort of drew you from that? So obviously you got out and sold the bikes and everything like that, moving into paramedics. We're just looking for that next thing, ready to overcome the high staircase fear?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, yeah, I think I, um, I met a guy that had done it a little bit. He kind of finished, but he's like I've done a bit of skydiving and stuff like that. So he kind of was like this is how you get into it and and that's basically how I got into it. I didn't have any mates that did it directly and I didn't know anyone that did the course. I just rocked up by myself one day and signed up and went through a little bit.
Speaker 2:So I kind of talk about it on the doco, about how.
Speaker 1:I've just always kind of made my own decisions. I haven't been like oh, you know, like safety in numbers, let's go do this together. Um, I was just like oh, I might do this and I'm just get into it. You always meet people in whatever you're doing, so where do you feel that comes from?
Speaker 2:because that was going to be a question I was going to ask, like if you're comfortable doing things by yourself. So many people are restricted from doing things that they also not are restricted. They restrict themselves from living a great life because they don't maybe have people in their current life that would do it with them. They don't have that foresight to know what you just said, where you will meet new people in whatever you do. So where do you?
Speaker 1:feel you develop that. I think I've always been kind of like that as an only child. That probably, um, you know you learn to get out there a little bit more.
Speaker 2:I don't know where that comes from actually, but yeah, I've always been pretty comfortable doing just achieving my goals and what I kind of wanted to do, so I'm not sure where it stems from it's a good skill to have and probably as people watch the doco and just even learn more about you, the, the beauty and I'm sure do you ever experience, I guess initially when you're gonna for example, when you went to start skydiving, was there any fear around not fitting in or anything like that. Or you just were like, let's just go do it, I want to do it not socially?
Speaker 1:no, not really. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a bit socially awkward sometimes, but um, I think it's never really been bothered me because I'm generally pretty quiet at the start anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah I do remember, um, like on a funny aspect, I was so terrified of skydiving and even after I've done like 10 or 20 jumps a few times, I'd drive all the way to the, to the drop zone, we call it, where, yeah, where you indulge in the skydiving, and I'd get there and be like I'm so scared, I'm not getting out of the car, there's no way. There's no way. And I would think to myself I don't know anyone here, I didn't tell anyone I'm coming, so no one knows I've driven to the car park. If I just drive home, no one will know. I even came and I'd sit there contemplating about going home for ages sometimes and I think, oh, I'll just get out of the car, get out of the car.
Speaker 2:And then you know, once you've done a few jumps and head home.
Speaker 1:You're so satisfied in yourself.
Speaker 2:How many jumps do you normally do a day?
Speaker 1:When you're learning, you're probably only doing a couple. But I think the most I ever did was I kind of got to the stage where I was doing a little bit of coaching. Yeah, so, not teaching people how to skydive, but teaching people that have got a few hundred jumps and they want to skydive better. Yeah, so I'd kind of, if I was doing camps like that, sometimes I'd be doing 12, 13 jumps a day, which is probably that's probably maxed out.
Speaker 2:What's your adrenaline like during that? Because when I went skydiving I had, I remember I was like we're gonna land on the beach and I'm gonna go to the pub and smash a heap of beers. But after I landed, maybe 30 minutes later, I just had this big crash of energy because the adrenaline just cooked me so yeah, after doing 13, like how do you, how do you feel?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, I'd be totally taxed, completely. I'd just be exhausted and I used to think I was probably like one of the only, not probably only ones, but it definitely seemed like it affected me more than anyone else. There's a lot of other people who could just charge all day and then kind of have a few drinks, have some dinner and then kick on through the night, wake up, do it again and and um, and especially like a lot of skydivers that then transition to base jumping because, like you were saying, base jumping is regarded as a bit more scarier and a bit more on the line. You'd come back to skydiving and feel a lot more comfortable. You're like, oh, this isn't that scary, there's not much to worry about.
Speaker 1:That wasn't me. I'd come back to skydiving after you know, a few months in europe and that door would open and I'd be petrified every time. Oh god, here we go. Yeah, I'd be exhausted, I'd be exactly what you're saying. So you know and it's probably only a handful of times I did that amount of jumps. Generally, seven or eight was pretty nice. Seven or eight is kind of comfortable.
Speaker 2:That's still nuts. And how does it work? Because once again I'm curious around, like when I went jumping, I think it cost me like $300 or whatever. So when you're jumping solo, it's not obviously costing you $300 to jump.
Speaker 1:Do you just pay like a day fee to jump or something like that, or how does that all work? Yeah, you pay per jump. I think, um, like when I first started, there was a few places that were like maybe 30 bucks or something. Yeah, these days I think it's close to 50, 45, 50 bucks yeah, hobby. So yeah, if you go and jump, it's, you know, 500 bucks a day yep, you can rack up definitely for an adrenaline fueled day, that's for sure yeah, but then motor bikes was the same.
Speaker 1:You know, you kind of burn a lot of rubber on your tires and then maybe you throw your bike down the road a couple of times.
Speaker 2:You're like, oh god you just love the expensive sports. What was it like motorbike riding, though? So to me once again. I used to ride dirt bikes, but you watch the like moto gp and the road bikes though that's freaking fast or like the isle of man race and stuff on the streets like what was it like for you doing that? Did you just froth on that, or how'd you get into it? What motivated you to stay into it?
Speaker 1:yeah, that one I think I actually did get into with a couple of mates. Well, they already rode, yeah so. And then I end up buying a bike and kind of did the usual, just went 110 percent, kind of, got all the gear, no idea, and just had a crack and um, you know, you're just obsessive. You know, if I wasn't doing it, I was watching youtube how to do it better, or I was just mentally rehearsing how I could be better. And you know, once you you're probably similar, I know you're a quite sporty guy, you're probably similar in that once you kind of feel this technical side of sports or whatever you're trying to achieve, that's when the addiction kind of comes in, because you're like now I'm analyzing how the sport works, I can work out how I can be better.
Speaker 1:Yep, the 1% is yeah, and that's where you get that drive. You're like yes, okay, so yeah.
Speaker 2:It is fascinating when you think about that, like the obsessive my wife always says the same and people in my life that when I go from sport to sport it's just like you find it and you get obsessed with it and you just rinse it of everything you possibly can, from YouTube videos to go into events to meeting the best people in it, and then pushing yourself to that that I guess threshold of what you're capable of and it's. There's something about the strategy and the, the finicky things that I really enjoy, because I don't know whether it's because I know a lot of people wouldn't do that or it's just very fascinating to me to deconstruct something, to work out how to make it better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's the addiction I think, and I was never one of the freaks. We've all had those friends that are just good at everything straight away and they frustrate you. I did get accused a couple of times of being learning things slightly quicker than the average bear, but I kept saying to people I was like I don't think in terms of how much work I put into it, like, yeah, we might be going to the track, the same, or we're doing the exact same amount of skydives, but like I'm lying there all the time with my eyes closed thinking about it and you know, and you think back to all these old scientific studies where guys are shooting basket hoops. Yeah, your eyes closed, they improve. I think it's the same, like if you broke down, how many hours I'd actually put into it. I'm probably slower. There's just a lot of hours there.
Speaker 2:Makes a lot of sense. What was it like now that you've got a two-year-old son as well? Like, are you diving just as much as you did, or have you sort of cut back on that? Like, has having a son shifted how you approach your diving at all?
Speaker 1:well, I think I just um, I haven't jumped now for I think over a year even skydived, yeah. So I did quite, quite a few. I think I did 60 or 70 odd after the accident, yeah, um, but then obviously you know, the household went from two incomes me and my partner, sophie, and two of us to, um, you know, three of us and one income because sophie become a stay-at-home mom.
Speaker 1:So yeah, um, you know, there's the finance thing, the reason there, and there's also the time, like you know, I'd kind of just rather hang out with the family going down to the drop zone for an entire day.
Speaker 1:It's um you know the family can come with you, but it's pretty loud the plane and get a lot of people and stuff like that. So just spending a bit more time with them and going down the beach and and save the money and stuff like that kind of just pulled me away from the sport a little bit and it kind of just got to the point where I was like, oh, you know, I struggled to justify spending that amount of money on just the hobby that I indulged in every now and then, yeah, you know, I think, um, if I was to get right back into it it'd be fine, I wouldn't mind, I wouldn't, the money wouldn't bother me. But, um, just picking it up every now and then I was like, oh, it's probably not worth it. You know, I miss, I miss the social aspect of it. A lot of my friends still jump and you know there's this like a lot of sports. Scott, I think, has this fraternity you know with it and you know that's one of the great things about it.
Speaker 1:So I miss a lot of that aspect, but in other times it's just moving on.
Speaker 2:These days I'm just surfing a lot and hanging out with a young fella. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Different chapter.
Speaker 2:Different chapter, yeah, different season of life. Can we talk about June sorry, not June January 16, 2021, what that day was like for you and even in the lead-up to it obviously you'd done hundreds of jumps to the lead-up of that and how that day changed your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose it was just to me. Me, it was just another normal jump until obviously I just I completely stuffed up. You know I've made this catastrophic accident. That was purely me. No one else was involved in what I did.
Speaker 2:You know what like the mistake I made, no one's involved in the mistake.
Speaker 1:But then you know, my good friend Luchi paid the piper for it, um, almost with his life. So it was very. It's still even to this day and I think I'll take it to the grave, when that it's very hard to swallow that I made that bigger mistake. Um, it's embarrassing. There's a lot of things associated with it and then obviously the rehabilitation of my leg.
Speaker 1:You know the accident in terms of injury I seem to be fine with. I was, like you know, I've charged hard in a lot of sports for years now and this is really my first accident. You know, like I've done very minor things prior to that. I've never even broken a bone other than like small things, you know, like hands and feet. So you know I was pretty. I was like whatever. You know, it's just my turn. Everyone's had a turn at being banged up, it's my turn.
Speaker 1:Um, so the first six months of rehab was pretty good, but then obviously I just like we were talking about before, with our like mentality towards how we deal with things. You know we have these goals, you know, have this almost warrior instinct that like I'm choosing this goal and and to overcome, like to achieve that goal. You, you wanted to dominate it. You know that was like a that sense, and that's how I treated my rehabilitation. You know everyone's like you just got to work super hard and I felt like I was working harder than I could have imagined and I was going backwards. It was pretty hard to swallow. So that was probably the start of the mental game.
Speaker 2:So prior, to that, it was very physical. So what ended up happening to your knee at that point in time?
Speaker 1:I'd smashed like the knee so it completely dislocated the knee, and just popping the knee like completely out of the socket, you just tear everything, yeah. So in terms of bone damage it wasn't that much. You know, there was a few things kind of snapped off the head of either side, but not a great deal of bone damage. All the ligaments, tendons and all that kind of stuff just completely snapped and and, as you know, like your knee has a fair range of motion it's not like your shoulder, but like it has a fair range of motion and you've got all this soft tissue that's very pliable and being able to achieve that range of motion. And once you snap everything and it just seals back together in a scar, it just loses all pliability. So my knee just became completely seized up so it wouldn't straighten and it wouldn't bend, it was just kind of locked in this about 30 degrees.
Speaker 1:I mean, in terms of like accidents it wasn't that bad really. You know, like I still had everything else working fine, it was just this knee. But that was probably one of the biggest things. You know, like in my mind it was a lame injury. It wasn't affecting a great deal of my body, it was only my knee. Everything else was fine, but it broke me, completely broke me.
Speaker 2:Why do you feel it broke you?
Speaker 1:Once I realized I wasn't really getting anywhere with my rehabilitation and I wasn't achieving what I thought was achievable In my mind, it was right there. I was like I can achieve this goal. I can rewrite the books. You know, all the doctors were saying like your leg's not going to work anywhere near like what it used to. I was like, don't worry about that. You know I'm writing my own book. Yeah, so I was like I'm gonna achieve this in half the time. I was like don't worry, don't worry about frame. I got it. Once I kind of realized I wasn't achieving anything there was the embarrassment of how lame the injury was.
Speaker 1:That's when I just kind of went into this depressive state. There was a lot of moments of anger and stuff, but it came down to the point where I made a conscious decision. I was like, right, I've lived a really good life. Um, I'm 36 years old, I've lived this great life, I've done everything. I like so many cool things, and now my life doesn't suit me, so I think I'm gonna end it, I'm gonna choose to take my own life. That was basically. You know, I'd come down to this thought process and at the time the scariest thing was I seemed very, um, you know, almost at peace with the decision. And somehow I got out of that space and kind of came good. And that's what this documentary is about is, once I realized I'd come out of it. And then all this great stuff happened. You know, like I'm continuing to hang out with my friends, I'm still surfing, I'm still doing all these great things. I became a father and I was like, wow, like I was that close. It felt like it was right there.
Speaker 1:And, um, like yourself, like I'm uh, I'm sure you've lost friends, or or you know family to suicide, because you know, most of us have these days and I was like, well, I'm gonna, just I'm gonna be really honest and just get out there and tell my story and how I felt. I suppose, in sense, just kind of create a little bit of safety in numbers, because sometimes all it takes is for someone else to go. Oh, ben had this feeling and he's fine, so maybe I just got to keep pushing through that's the idea, idea of the documentary.
Speaker 2:I guess it's a powerful story and thanks for sharing that, Ben. Like I often think about it, if my body wasn't able to do what I can do now, like how would I cope with that? Just from, like an identity standpoint very similar to you, like live a very active life, have had a great life, but I feel, without having experienced it, I would definitely struggle in that chapter. So for you to be able to make peace and keep pushing through I think it's always what's darkest before the dawn or whatever it is If you can persevere through tough times, there's generally meaning and purpose that comes out the back of that and obviously, as you said, that's what brought to life the documentary. Also becoming a father and these next sort of seasons of your life which has made you the man that you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really cool. Interesting and cool to hear you use those words like make peace with it because I use the exact same analogy, because I realized my depression was not something that I needed to conquer Like we were talking about before. I had this conquer mentality Like I must defeat everything and learn about it and dominate it.
Speaker 1:The thing that got me through was making peace with it and I know it might sound weird and it might not resonate with everyone, but it resonates really well with me. Once I made peace with that time in my life, I really moved forward with a lot of growth. You get a lot of personal growth through these dark times.
Speaker 2:As well to that point. I want listeners to take that away. There's no one-size-fits-all for anything mental health related. There's a difference with mental illness and mental health and you know, trauma and and tragedy like can put us in dark places, and what works for one individual may not work for the other, and it's. There's so many tools available and you can, you know, seek professional help, you can lean into your communities or whatever it is, and what works today may not work tomorrow as well, and I think it's really important to understand that and not be hard on yourself.
Speaker 2:But it's just going okay. Today this is what I need, or tomorrow that's yesterday. That's what I needed and just accepting that and I think your your point there was making peace is what it's. It's always going to be around, because it's the relationship that we have with ourself is projecting onto everything, and if we're not happy within, the work has to start within and quite often it's not about adding more or conquering, as you said. It's just like accepting what is and then allowing ourself to build off that base yeah, 100%, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's really well said, and um, yeah because I kind of of struggled to put my thoughts into words a lot of times, especially when relating to this, and I think what you said, then definitely resonates with how I kind of moved forward.
Speaker 2:What does life look like for you now?
Speaker 2:So you guys obviously have released Impact and you're doing well with all the film festivals and there's so many opportunities that are going to come off the back of it because it's such an inspiring story and I'm super grateful that you guys are here to tell the story and, as I was saying to Looch last week as well, like being able to turn this painful experience and even for yourself, ben, like there's so much strength in your ability to own and take responsibility for what happened that so many people would just try and avoid.
Speaker 2:And for me, I find it so admirable and it's something that I really respect about you just being like I fucked up. For me, I'm like that is complete ownership, that people talk about it on the internet all the freaking time, but this is like a really tough real life use case where you've done that and to then be able to be building something like a tool or a resource, essentially with the documentary, that can inspire and can tell the story from both perspectives, and that's what I'm really excited to speak to both yourself and Looch in, you know, I think January, where we can have you both on and dive deep into the accident and perspectives and thoughts. I think will be really cool. But, yeah, moving forward for you. What are you most excited about with the documentary?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure what's really to come with it. To be honest, me and Looch, all the time are brainstorming about what we could do and it sounds all well and good, but you never know, maybe it just all gets viewed and everyone gets this sense of entertainment, a little bit of a story, and it disappears in 12 months' time. Or maybe we kind of build off it, like you're saying. It would be really cool if we can build off it and kind of develop something for mental health, just people kind of getting out and about and sharing stories and all that kind of stuff. It could be really cool. There could be something really cool coming out of it. Way, like I mean, I'm really trying to enjoy every aspect, like enjoy this. You know, even watching the film.
Speaker 1:The other week I went down to the boron film festival. That's the first time like I'd actually sat down and watched the entire documentary, I'd seen every segment. But to watch the whole thing, start to finish and, um, yeah, there's definitely segments there. I there, I'm looking at the screen and I'm like, oh my God, ben, you're absolutely pathetic. What are you doing? But I was like, oh, just embrace it. It is what it is and you know, pathetic is a human emotion. I guess I can't rob myself of everything this is Spot on.
Speaker 2:Every podcast episode I listen back to it myself or content. There's always moments where I find myself in like I'm just like, dude, that was so cringy or why did you say that or why did you act like that. But I think, as you said, it's like it's part of the human experience as well. We're doing the best that we can with the information that we have and where you know, everyone's got a reason behind why we're doing what we're doing and we use this as feedback, right yeah to to get better, to get more clear, to get more concise and impact other people.
Speaker 2:because, ultimately, I think you guys have such a unique story in and of the fact that you guys have a great friends afterwards as well and you've got both sides of the story. Like for me, where it's so powerful is perspective is what either makes people live incredible lives or can fully dismantle their life, whether they're taking it through like a empowered mindset, sort of how you've done or the victim mindset I fucked up and let me just destroy my life and punish myself as a result and the fact that you were both there to tell the story of the same event is so freaking powerful and I'm genuinely so excited to have that conversation when we have it, to be able to really just highlight that from a real life event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Um, it's definitely and uh, yeah, everyone, like you said, there's a few people that have been so excited on on that fact and you know, like you're saying, me and luchi be kind of we knew, we knew each other, but, um, you know, like the making of this uh film and and even just chatting after, you know, I collided with him. Yeah, we've become a lot closer and um, and with patty as well, that the main film oh, we've had our challenges, making the film good.
Speaker 1:Like all three of us, we've all tested each other. You know there's been some good, heated arguments, but we always just come back to base, you know right, all right, come on, let's just. We're all friends, let's think about what we're doing while we're doing it, yeah, yeah exactly. So let's just go back to the first step, which was we're all just going to come together, put our footage together and have some fun. That was like the number one goal was always like just have some fun.
Speaker 2:So every time we kind of come back to that.
Speaker 1:Any kind of anger has never been sustained.
Speaker 2:That's cool. And what has that documentary process been like? Had you ever done any filmmaking or documentary stuff prior, or has it just been like off the back of this you're now sort of putting it together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never done anything and I've been very poor throughout my life with camera. Even when I was doing bass, drumming and stuff like that, I'd get to the exit point and I'd left my camera in my tent flat. I forget to turn it on. I've always been someone that's just like. I'm really happy, just for me turning on I've just I've always been someone. That's just like I'm really happy just for me, yeah you know, and I think I even started a social.
Speaker 1:I think I started social media when I kind of was heading over to do one of my base trips. I was like I'm gonna start sharing it online and then that was probably like the worst season. I ever used my camera, put up one and then I put one video up and my nan seen it because everyone's on social media these days and my name was like oh my god, what are you?
Speaker 2:doing and I was like oh, better take that one down, don't want her saying that yeah yeah, I've never been great with the camera.
Speaker 1:I'm terrible in front of the camera, which you'll probably see when you watch the documentary. I'm just hopeless like a deer in headlights. So, um, it was a complete unique experience to me. Um, and just the way that, like everything's filmed to then how it translates on the screen, like that, was a bit odd to me. And, yeah, I think luci had a little bit of background, so he was pretty good. He's done a couple of things here and there, so, um, and he's a lot better with the camera.
Speaker 1:He takes, takes the gopro with a lot of things he does lives a very adventurous life, as you, as you know from chat noob, and he's always got the camera rolling, so he's pretty creative that way just banking those memories.
Speaker 2:That's yeah, and he's such a character.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't as good it's great that, um, you've been able to use, uh, this, this experience in your life for good and and like shifting your perspective around it. And I guess to the documentary point I. There's a book that I've read a number of times, but it's by jim roan, who's like a professional development speaker, and he just he said one thing in this audio tape that I was listening to is like there's three things that you leave behind. It's your, your books, which will help people understand what shaped your thoughts and ideas. Your journals to understand what you thought about. And then your photos to understand, like, the experiences and memories that you lived. Obviously, we're in a bit more of a digital age now, so I was like, right, podcast, podcast, youtube, journal, cool, that's what I can leave behind for people.
Speaker 2:So my sort of idea behind things is if I can document moments of my life, even if people don't want to watch them, there might be a chance that when I'm 95 and can't do too much, I'll be able to put on the headset and just relive moments in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, headset and, just you know, really relive moments in my life. Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's a good way to think about it actually so that's an interesting book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll share with you after because I listen to it quite regularly. It's very simple and to the point, but just helps me remind, or helps remind me, of what you know is important within what I believe to be important within life. But now that you're a dad as well, ben, I'd love to know, with what you're creating and just even the fact that you're surfing you've been through this experience you're impacting people's lives, probably more than you even realize already. How do you want your son to remember you, or not even remember you, but think about you?
Speaker 1:Well, that's an interesting one. Hey, fatherhood is so different and it changes all the time. I guess I got so much growth out of this process and I still am, because I'm always learning and I guess for my son, hopefully I can gift him with the ability that he's I'm influencing him to make his own decisions and just in guidance and hopefully he can brace his mistakes. You know it inspires me to go to the gym. Hopefully I can still kick his ass for the next 20 years until he takes over. But yeah, I just want him to kind of view me as a mentor, a friend and, you know, someone he looks up to. So just trying to be that person in life in all aspects, just be a generalized good person.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, it's a bit hard to kind of put that one into a definitive answer.
Speaker 2:No, I just was curious as to whether it was something that you could put into words, because for me, one of the things that I love most about podcasting is being able to learn from people in all different walks of life around like what makes them tick and what they're aspiring to be, and I think a lot of it comes back to some common principles just around, like the importance of connection and and just making not only yourself feel valued and heard, but allowing the people that you care about most to to feel that love and value and support, even though it's very easy to get focused on so many other things outside of that from wealth to watches to everything else like that. But at the end of the day, especially when you go through experiences like what you've gone through, like it definitely makes you question life right, and you've thought a lot about that. So has your perspective on life shifted since the accident as well?
Speaker 1:Or even since the yeah, yeah, I think the biggest thing has been because I was such like a goal-orientated person and I'm also very analytical. So I've spent a lot of my life and it's either analysing what I've done in the past and you know how it might have been perceived by others, how I could be better if I've said anything wrong, how I could say it better, or just actions, you know, did this? How did I act then? Should I have been a better friend? All these things.
Speaker 1:And if I wasn't thinking about that, I was thinking about goals, or what am I going to do tomorrow? How am I going to be better? I just want to be better than the version I was yesterday. And it's such an obsession and I realized I'd missed out on a lot of this moment, because that's one thing we all have and that's right now and I just are going through all that. I realized I just need to just take a breath here and there, embrace this moment for what it is, what's happening right now, live in the moment a lot more. So it's fine to have those goals and have that warrior mentality, but, um, you know what's the saying don't let the don't, let the thoughts of don't let the regrets of yesterday and the concerns of tomorrow steal this moment.
Speaker 2:So it's a beautiful quote yeah but that that that sort of summarizes my validates my point from a moment ago. That was the exact thing that I probably needed to kick up the ass with. I'm very goal-orientated, very, very, very analytical with things, and hearing you say that that's exactly what my wife says to me and a lot of people, it's like dude, just got to learn to let go of things a little bit and just live in the moment. I travel a lot around the world and I've got an incredible life, but a lot of the time I'm like I'd have to be in bed by this time because I'm doing this at 5 am and then we're doing that and it's like it's cool to a point for some things, but I'm also like missing out on the spontaneity. Is that the spontaneity of life that as it's unfolding?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, for sure, you know just even little things, like obviously my son's teaching reminds me of that, and teaching because they are the absolute lords of living in the moment. You know, lords of living in the moment, I love it. Yeah, because you know, just, I don't know a song comes on on the radio and they're just, and they just jump off the couch and start dancing around the lounge.
Speaker 1:They have this pure joy on their face and I think, why should I be sitting here thinking about what I'm going to do tomorrow? Just admire him doing his thing, yeah, he's a good little reminder.
Speaker 2:It's awesome. But, benny, I've really appreciated you coming on and I know we're going to dive, because there's probably people thinking we should have jumped into more detail around the accident and everything like that. But it's just guys. You guys got to come back in January when we record with both yourself and Looch together and we can dive into that in more detail. But, for everyone listening, if you had questions for Ben that you would like me to ask when we do the next episode in a couple of months time, make sure you send them through and we'll be able to dive into that.
Speaker 2:But, benny, mate, you are a big inspiration to me and, as I was saying earlier, I don't know whether you recognize the impact. Like people talk a lot about personal responsibility and owning up to things and you've done that and I can't imagine how hard that would be, but the fact that you can sit here and just fucking own it is is so aspirational. I wish a lot more people could do that in their life. I think the world would be a better place and that's why I'm a big. I really believe more people will get sorry, people will get so much value from this documentary because you're getting both sides of the story You're getting, you showing strength and courage through owning a mistake, which we all make mistakes in life. That's part of life.
Speaker 1:And then, obviously, having gone through what you went through, with the rehabilitation and the mental challenges that you've faced, to still be here now, turning your pain into purpose, which is a beautiful thing to watch from afar yeah, thanks, mate, thanks for the kind words and yeah, hopefully when we catch up in january, a lot of people have watched the film and obviously the film goes into the accident and gives you a really good idea, because everyone's wearing gopros, so we have plenty of footage. Yeah, you can see everything and you get the real time, uh, of how everything happened and. But obviously there's a lot of things we didn't really discuss in there that just, um, might have been a bit boring for the big screen or we weren't sure how it would be perceived.
Speaker 1:So hopefully when we catch up in january I'll have a bit more of an idea of um, what people kind of think of the film and and where it might have left a little bit of a hole and like I'd like to know more about this part. So that's where we're really good. Catch up with you, um, with luchi, and we can have a good yarn with that kind of stuff be great sounds good.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks so much for coming on, mate, really appreciate it yeah, cheers, thanks for having me mate.
Speaker 1:Nice to meet you likewise and everyone.
Speaker 2:Just check out the show notes. You'll be able to find the links to the documentary and Ben's links as well. So all you've got to do is click it and get going. As always, do something today to be better for tomorrow.
