Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Welcome to Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart—the podcast dedicated to empowering men to break through barriers and achieve their full potential.
Hosted by Lachlan Stuart, this show dives deep into the challenges men face, offering actionable insights, real-life stories, and expert advice. Whether you're focused on fitness, business, personal growth, or fatherhood, you'll find inspiration and tools here to help you rise above any challenge and become the man that can.
New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Tune in, get inspired, and start living the life you’ve always wanted.
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Man That Can with Lachlan Stuart
Coaching An Athlete For 58 Consecutive marathons | Dean Wicks
This week my coach Dean Wicks comes on the show to talk all about coaching me to run 58 consecutive marathons. We dive into the nutrition, periodisation and so much more around this world first event and what it takes to train an athlete for this.
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Do Something Today To Be Better For Tomorrow
It's legit.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the man that Can with Lockie Stewart Today. This one is one that people have been DMing me a lot about and I've just been saying hold out, hold out, hold out, we're going. And then Wixie Dean Wix, my coach and mate, is on the show. So, wixie, firstly thanks for giving us your time on a rainy Friday morning. Thank you, mate, good to be here, and if we didn't have your beautiful wife as your chief technical officer, we might have had a DNS on this one. Yeah, yeah, we're in big trouble.
Speaker 2:And our second podcast guest from Dolby.
Speaker 1:from my research I've done yeah, you've done some research there.
Speaker 2:Second, from Dolby putting it on the map About 320 NRL games between the two of us. Not too bad at all.
Speaker 1:That's how it was 320 nrl games between the boys. I like that one. That's the, that's the money shot. But, mate, so good to have you on there, on there, on here. Uh, it's going to be a good yarn. Obviously we're going to dive into, I guess, training me for 58 marathons and stuff, because people have questions that they ask me a lot that I just I probably could have a stab at answering, but I think you're the man for the job for that. But I also want to just help other people who are aspiring to run marathons or looking for guidance to answer some of those questions. But before we do, can we get a bit of a background on Wixie? Mate, you've obviously grown up in Dolby, as you mentioned. Yep, you've done a lot of endurance sports and that's sort of your forte. Now, what led you to that point, like what took you or got you interested in that back in the day? Endurance sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, long story short, I guess, guess, probably a pretty normal bloke from the darling downs, just like yourself, love playing footy, grew up playing that. Would have loved to make it as a footy player, like most kids growing up in you know, dalby, toowoomba etc. But just never good enough. Um got signed by burley bears, their cup squad. When I was 19, had a cup of coffee with the burley bears as soon as some Titans boys got cut back from Titans. I was, I was gone um and then so always, yeah, grew up, love playing sports and then just a normal sort of late teenager and early 20 year old kid, probably drinking too many beers and getting up to mischief with the boys. And then I think it like you hit that point mid to mid to early 20s where you see one group of mates going one way and they're rolling home at 5 6 am saturday, sunday nights. And then I live with one of my best mates still to this day jack his name is. I think you met him before the bloke I sort of cruise around and do all my marathons with and he sort of changed his lifestyle and was getting up at five in the morning and riding his bike for a couple hours. So I sort of saw him going one way, I saw the boys going the other way and I decided to kind of go that way and, you know, enjoy a active, healthy lifestyle, um. So I sort of became obsessed with endurance sports, started with triathlon. Um, I've got a pretty addictive personality, which I think like pretty common, for you know people that can get good at things, which is a good thing, but can also be a bad thing. So you know sprint triathlons which take an hour, turned into olympic distance and then half ironmans. And then, you know, when I first met my wife now lauren, I was doing sprint distance triathlon so she'd only have to wait for me for an hour and then, a year after that, ironman's and you're out there all day. So, yeah, that's sort of what made me fall in love with endurance sports.
Speaker 2:And then I think just the simplicity out of it's the best part. Like you know, anyone can get good at it, because you get out what you put in with the sport. If you're willing to work and work smartly over months, years, months and years, you get really fit. Pretty much that's what I loved about it. And then just fell in love with running through triathlon just because I guess I got I excelled in that discipline of the sport more, so that makes you like it a bit better.
Speaker 2:Just because you get good at something. Obviously that's rewarding, and just the simplicity of running is what I fall in love with. Like you know, if it doesn't matter if you're just on holidays or whatever, you've got a pair of shoes, you can get in a training session, which is which is the best part, when triathlons are a bit of a pain in the ass in terms you need your bike and swim pool, etc. So, yeah, fell in love with running through triathlon and particularly long distance stuff. So now I'm just out running marathons, having fun doing that and then coaching a lot of people along the way.
Speaker 1:That's a cool progression. What do you feel? An interesting one for me is like when you hit that fork in the road and some mates were going some way one direction and obviously Jack as, as you mentioned, was sort of going down a different direction. What was it that made you gravitate more to the early mornings and putting in the work there, as opposed to rolling in at the early morning?
Speaker 2:oh, it's a tough one to say like you can, when there's a group of friends too and I might have been early 20s at the time and some of the older boys in the group are probably, you know, 30, early 30s and you know there's nothing wrong with what they're doing. But I would look at them in a way and be like I don't really want to be doing this 10 years from now when I'm 32. You know, I want something different in my life and I think nearly at the time you get you feel guilty for that right. You're like you know he's a good bloke, he's a great mate and there's nothing wrong with what he's doing, and I half felt guilt that I had to pull myself back from you know that that group of friends that's probably too much drinking, drugs and partying. Go the other way with the, with the mate that loves getting up and you know, putting on lycra as a 23 year old, believe it or not, wasn't cool back then, lucky you know also now.
Speaker 2:It's cool to be a runner in those days, shaving your legs and riding uh, riding a pushy, particularly from a boat from dolby, isn't the coolest thing to do.
Speaker 1:I can just see you cutting laps out by the dolby devils in with your shaved legs and lycra on.
Speaker 2:What a sight I was, uh fortunate on the gold coast at this point.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there would have been no shaving legs, uh, or riding in lycra anywhere in the dolby, that's for sure mate, I remember I did the um malula bar try, just like as a team, and I remember the dude who was doing the bike leg. I gave him so much shit for wearing lycra and shaving his legs because I was like, mate, what the fuck are you doing? And now, look, to be fair, I shaved my legs back in the day or I clipped them and I'd probably get back into it just to look. Look a little bit better as I get older, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, but yeah, a few funny stories about Laka. There's always a part where a mutual friend of ours is a good example Petey Styling, he got a bike and he got bike riding with me a year or so back to get fit. Yeah, and Petey for the listeners to paint the picture he's about as blokey of a bloke as it gets Concrete. You know, when I shake his hand I feel like you know 10 of a man. Um, he's, you know, he's working his ass off in 40 degree heat and I'm here behind a computer real blokey bloke. But I've got him out on doing some training rides on a bike and he would refuse to wear lycra. Nah, can't do it, can't pull it off. I talk about three rides where the bloke is so sore. You know everything going on downstairs. Because that's why you wear Lycra it's to protect the goods. And he had me cave in and finally got the Lycra on. He's like mate, I should have done this ages ago.
Speaker 1:Mate, can you send me some photos of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I probably could find some. Yes.
Speaker 1:Needed to get in some googe scoop, but once I guess needed to get in some gooch group he's. But just side note on pete he's one of the most genuinely great blokes I've ever met. Like when I used to train him in the gym he there was never a day where he was not happy to be there and he was just so stoked if you'd smash him on a squad or whatever. He's still smiling and you're like how you doing pete? He's like man, I'm just I'm happy I was. I've never, ever trained anyone who's been happy the whole time. Yeah, we did this 12 hour walk a few years back overnight.
Speaker 1:His ankles are not good either yeah, obviously his ankles are busted and the poor bastard is same thing like I was like mate, you don't need to do this. Like you don't have anything to prove, you go home. He's like, nah, I'm just gonna keep going, just kept toddling along. I was like, once again, he's just grateful to be there and be able to do things. So I learned a lot from him, just in his outlook on life yeah, yeah, me too, real mentor of mine.
Speaker 2:Just the way he treats people, how successful he is and his beautiful family. He's, yeah, good guy and a good sort of role model to look up to, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:But maybe he should take a few things out of your book and when you get him on the bike so he doesn't have the sore, sore nether region there you should have trust me earlier, man.
Speaker 2:It would have been a lot smoother transition for him yeah, but it's really I.
Speaker 1:I find it admirable that you were able to do that at a young age. I think I had that fork in the road moment, but I didn't go the right way. I think deep down I wanted to pursue the health stuff and wanted to do that. But I just to your point. It is hard to distance yourself from mates and it's nothing against them, it's just like what you're interested in and where you see yourself going. So it took me a couple of years to get back around to that before I started going. Look, this is what I actually genuinely enjoy and this is what I prioritize. This is how I want to be. So that's what I'm going to do, and I probably did that, maybe not too long after that 25, so not that much older, but I wish I definitely did it a lot earlier yeah, but I think you need to make those mistakes to get to that point too.
Speaker 2:Right like, you know how good of a feeling is it when you get out on a sunday morning for your long run and you feel a million bucks, you're ready to rock. And you see that person just get out of the cab from a town and I just think, oh, I'm so glad I'm not you don't get me wrong doing it every now and again. I'm still on board for that. You know you've got to celebrate your wins and have a good time as well, but you know it's so easy to fall into the trap of doing that every weekend and then you're sort of your constant state of health is just tired all week, drunk weekends, tired all week. And that's just for me. Wasn't the, you know, the most appealing way to live through your 30s, 40s and the rest of your life?
Speaker 1:definitely, and especially like as a husband and you know you've got goals and ambitions and as a like you need to. There are some and if you look at like not partying as a sacrifice, and that's a sacrifice that needs to be paid for that but when you obviously were moving into the marathons and stuff, like did you have any big goals or ambitions that you wanted to achieve with that? Or do you still have big goals and ambitions that you want to achieve there? Like whether it's a sub, I don't know, two-hour 45 or what are you chasing? Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:I think, and depending on the pitch, like I'm not like a good athlete by any means, I've kind of just ripped in over the years and done enough work that I've kind of got decent at something. And my first proper marathon I did. So I'd only ever run a marathon off the bike in an Ironman. So I think that set me up nicely, that, not that ever jumping on a marathon start line is easy. It's still daunting, but you're like shit, I don't have to ride 180k bike before this.
Speaker 2:This is, this is a dream and I'm done by. I'm done by nine for a coffee and brekkie with the missus and I can be at the pub by 12 for a beer. This, this is where it's at. Um, yeah, yeah. First one, I wanted to run a sub three on my first attempt, um, sunny coast marathon and I'm like I had no idea if I'd be able to do it um, and just went out at 4 15s as a sub three just to see when the wheels would fall off. And they didn't fall off, which was good. I think around 258 that day last year I ran, ran my PB at Noosa Marathon. I ran a 2.50, so four minutes per K.
Speaker 2:Well, 3.59 is four minutes per K right along that line. And then this year my goal was sub 2.45, and I only had a disc in my back 10 days before Gold Coast Marathon. So that's been that. Got sidetracked a bit, but next year I'll get back at it doing Ballarat Marathon and, yeah, anything around that two-hour 45 mark would be good. Beautiful thing about endurance sports. It's a bit of an old man's game too. Mate. Like what are you? You're younger than me, lach, you're 33?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 33.
Speaker 2:I look old.
Speaker 1:It's all buggery, though the grays are everywhere we, we're babies.
Speaker 2:It's probably like 40 years old, peak endurance age. So just yeah, see what I can do in my body over the next five years. Set myself the goal, see how quick I can get. Whether that gets down to 230s or whatever, it doesn't really matter, it's just my satisfaction and my goals and pushing yourself is good fun.
Speaker 1:I've got two questions. So first one what does it feel like holding four minute Ks for that, or 415 for an entire marathon? Like for context for people, if you're a bit of a runner or you're trying to understand what this could possibly feel like and obviously, fitness you've trained for this but even just for me thinking about running 415s for 42 kilometers, it sounds like hell on earth, like definitely something I'd love to work towards. But what does that feel like mentally, knowing that most people can't even hold that pace for a kilometer or two and you're doing that 42 times over, yeah, and the second question that probably could lead into it is the injury.
Speaker 1:Like a lot of people worry about doing any kind of exercise because of injury. It might take them time off work or whatever. So from your, I guess, experience with the injury that you had, what are you going to change in your programming and what do you feel maybe led to that as well? So if we could go to the first one, what's it like running that pace and then hit the injury? Talk after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, when you're standing on the marathon line, you're prepared for it. Right, you got to put in the work to to do that. So you know, when I ran my pb last year at noosa, um me, my mate, jack, we our biggest session we did was six by five k at four minute pace, so 30k, where the intervals at that pace and that was our biggest workout, say, three weeks before on tired legs in a marathon build. So it's probably those sessions that give you the confidence, knowing that you know that day in training when you've probably got 100k in your legs for the week, you can, you can hold it for 30k. It's a, it's more of a mental thing, like when I'm staying on the, when I'm staying on the start line three weeks and now I'm fresh. You know, I've got my fast shoes on, I've got all the carbs on board, I'll be able to do this.
Speaker 2:So yeah, marathon pace are tricky. Once, really like the first 20k should feel easy. You know you're like you it's, it's hard, but like if you're not over the top. And then they always say the race starts at about 30k, which is the truth, and that 30k you start hurting and you're just like and it's it's, it's half mental at that point too. Like you, you know even the best in the world, I guarantee like their head's telling them to quit. The whole time it's kind of just fighting that voice in your head saying you know, slow down a little bit, mate, no one's going to care if you run one minute slower. And you're constantly like trying to push that to the side and fight it, which is half the battle.
Speaker 2:And that's, I think. Um, I think that's, uh, something you learn, just putting yourself in the firing and doing races and just getting better at dealing with those negative thoughts. Um, yeah, marathons are rollercoaster too, because you feel you might feel absolutely shit at 30k and by 35 you're feeling good again and by 40 on death's door. So it's just riding the peach and valley and just just hanging in there. But yeah, every race you do there's not one that goes past the thing like why the hell am I doing this? Like you, this is, this is grim. And then you know two hours after you decide that was, that was the best when's the next one?
Speaker 2:let's go again. So, um, yeah, I guess that's what it feels like it sucks, but it's like it sucks, but it's manageable. Really, it's only that last half an hour that really hurts, yeah, and in terms of training and avoiding injury, it's like it sucks, but it's manageable. Really, it's only that last half an hour that really hurts, yeah, and in terms of training and avoiding injury, it's just being smart with your progression in the sport. You know like there would have been years where I was running 50k, bumped up to 70k, to 80 to 100. It doesn't happen overnight, so you can't. You just gotta train to where you're at, ability wise in that build and not overreach that. And if you're smart about your training and you progress slowly over the years, then your body can do some pretty cool shit and it will get stronger and adapt and you won't break down. It's just when you don't train as smart, that's when the issues sort of happen.
Speaker 1:That's one thing that I've learned a lot from you and I'm glad you didn't pull my head in, but you sort of did in a nice way when I first reached out to you. Obviously one of the reasons why I approached you to see if you would be able to train me was I've followed your Strava and stuff for years like a weird little stalker in a way, and I've just always seen different, like variations in your training and the speeds that you're running, but then also like your slower runs and I always see like heart rate and I'm into all the data and it's been so consistent that I'm like this guy. One is like I also love how you live your lifestyle. Like we're talking about it before with your wife. Like you got a very family orientated lifestyle. You still enjoy a beer. So it's not like you're talking about it before with your wife. Like you got a very family orientated lifestyle. You still enjoy a beer. So it's not like you're going to make me sacrifice things that are important to me to do that and you sort of relate to a lot of the stuff. But then you've also got the runs on the board.
Speaker 1:I know you said you're not talented, from the data that I see of you. I think you're very talented in the speeds that you're running and all of that, and it's like what I aspire to do. And then I was like, right, I'm going to hit you up because I can't program for myself. As you obviously found out, I was just trying to hammer it every session and I've improved more in the last seven or eight weeks now with you than I had in two years of like. Obviously I've been running for a long while but like literally my speeds have increased and my heart rates lowered, which I'd been trying to do, but I just felt like I had to do more hard sessions than I did easy sessions. And now at the moment, the way you're programming it, every time I see my heart rate like hit this new low zone or my speed improve, I'm like what the hell is going on?
Speaker 2:like, yeah, this is impressive stuff and you probably don't even realize how fit you're getting. Like you know, maybe week by week you won't realize, and I could see how fit you're getting, but when you're in it's your body and you're inside you don't feel like you're getting that much better. And then all of a sudden you look back from when we started together two months. You're like holy shit, it happened quick, even though I didn't feel that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what's blown my mind. Like, literally, eight weeks is not a big amount. Like, when I talk to people about working with you, I'm like, yeah, I think it was seven or six weeks and then eight weeks and it's not that big a deal. But I'm like fuck and hell. I've like dropped fuck and hell. I've gained some pace and dropped the heart rate, so my efficiency is improving and it's what everyone who's wanting to get better at their running is trying to do.
Speaker 1:But we definitely feel you have to work harder every day. And it's not that I'm not working hard in the programming that you're doing, but it's just like a lot of the time it's time on legs and getting good at that. So we, I guess, dive into a little bit around the training block that we've just completed and what we were trying to achieve and everything like that, just so people could understand. Because there's definitely in the beginning I was like I don't think I'm doing enough hard running, but I trusted you because you've got the runs on the board and now I'm like I'd listen to anything that you said. Yeah, even like food dude. You're like educating me around eating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, which has been game changing yeah, yeah, I mean food is so big they're caught. Well, in triathlon they caught the fourth discipline because, like, if you don't have enough calories I guess, to to train and live, then you're just not going to get better. Like, food's so important, like, and you probably know now, if you go in the morning run you can feel if you didn't eat enough the day before and the days you do you feel so much better. So you know, I would argue it'd be a lot. I'd always rather overeat a little bit and feel good the next day to train for performance, as opposed to under eat maybe, like, if I ever get tell by my wife my belly's got a little bit bigger. I'm pumped because if I can keep, a little bit on me, because otherwise you, just you know, you break down and you get so little.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, food is so big when it comes to endurance sports and people just don't realize how much they have to eat. You know, like it's it's. It's one of the best parts about endurance sports, because when I sit down for dinner, I eat so much food, but it's also like sometimes like oh, oh, that's enough, I don't eat anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, in terms of your block mate, I knew I was excited to train you because A like you've got wheels, I knew like you can run fast, like you've got a good athletic ability, so you've got the potential there and I'd looked at what the training you're doing. I just knew, like because you hadn't trained properly like endurance athlete before, you're going to get better really quickly. Um, and a lot of coaching in the endurance aspect is actually pulling people back, like especially maybe people like yourself coming from a bit of a crossfit background like those workouts are if you're not leaving the, you know, if you're not leaving the room spewing 10 times and you feel like what have I done? When endurance is the opposite, like if I ever give you a workout that you can't complete, that's bad coaching by me, because I want to give you just enough training every day that you get a stimulus that your body can adapt from, but not too much, so the next day you can back it up and train again. So, nearly like on an interval session, for example, I'm far better at giving you two reps less and you're feeling a little bit tired, but good, and the next day you can get up for your run when it'd be easy for me to hand me it till you can't walk. But then if you can't run for three days after you know what was that better than doing a bit less and then be able to back it up? You know, that's the answers. Whoever does the most consistently gets better.
Speaker 2:So, like, intensity control is the biggest piece of the puzzle in terms of training and that's probably the biggest mistake that a lot of people getting into running make is that they just run hard all the time. You know they probably they never run easy, so they're never really training like developing aerobically, but then they're never running hard enough to actually get faster. They kind of pick that middle ground where it feels like you know, maybe your heart rate's at 160, you've had a decent workout, like you feel like you've done something, but you're never like going easy or you're never going hard enough to get better because you're always tired, because you're always in that sort of middle zone, if that makes sense, yeah, yeah and I guess yeah. Going back to your training, the way I think when we started together, I think the words I used to you, which I know you didn't like and I didn't mean to offend you- no, it was fine, you were starting to do some crazy shit already, Like I think did you do a back-to-back marathon?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did back-to-back marathons and like three halves and shit yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were already doing some crazy stuff. And I remember, like you know, I've been running for a lot longer than you and I'd look at that and I'd be like there's no chance I'm doing that. That would wipe me for weeks. And I was, you were doing it. I think my words were like we need to earn the right for you to do that first. That's exactly what you said to me. Yeah, yeah, I know, um, because you, you know you would do. You'd run back-to-back marathons and put together 110k run week, but then the next two weeks you'd only run 20 or 30k.
Speaker 2:So I look at that from, you know, a whole holistic perspective. I'm like, well, you would have been better off structuring your week so you can run as much volume as possible without doing anything crazy. And instead of doing one big 110K week and then being so cooked you had to run 20 the next day. What if you ran 90K those three run weeks? All of a sudden, you banked an extra. You know 150 kilometres and you're in a hot run. You're far fitter than that and it also stressed me out you doing that stuff this early on that you were at the point when I started with you, four months from the challenge that you can't afford to get injured. Now, mate, like you, you know, if you're not a stress, you're doing back-to-back marathons. Before I started coaching and you were on the soil over 10 weeks like that would have been hard for you then to start from scratch. Yeah, and all of a sudden you run literally around the world 10 weeks from now and you've had your leg in a leg in a boot, you know. So that was I'm glad I got you when I did, because I would have hate for you to got hurt and your body not even be able to get there. So yep, so yeah, I guess I guess what we did with you lockers, we.
Speaker 2:I looked at your week and I'm like I want to structure this bloke's week like I know he's, I know he can run fast, I know he's a hard worker, so I want to structure his week so he can run as much volume as possible and handle the load and back it up week after week after week after week. So I think when we started together the month prior, you were averaging about 55 kilometres a week, which I think I said to you like that's probably a bare minimum to do a marathon in general, I'm like, mate, this is a big goal. We need to get you doing some big boy K's here. And so, yeah, we just structured your week that like what's your three biggest things you're going to do in a week? We've got your long run, which is probably the most important for you, giving you a run of marathons. We're going to give you one interval session a week and although, like, you could just jog around all week for the goal you're doing, but you get really good bang for buck out of a session, as long as we're smart about it, not overdo it it's going to get you fitter really quickly. And then, mentally for you like you love a session, like you'll always message me after. But, mate, that was so much fun. Yeah, even like the psychological part of that was really good for you, because to have a session in the middle of the week that you look forward to, that's worth its weight in gold. Because if you, if you, were just jogging for seven days straight, you get bored of that pretty quickly and you wouldn't enjoy this process.
Speaker 2:So so, yeah, we had your long run, your session, and then we had your medium long run. So they're your, they're your three most demanding sessions. We've got over your weeks. How can we do that? So you go into each session feeling your best and performing and being able to absorb the training. So for us that was a medium long run on a monday tuesday was pretty chilled. Wednesday a session thursday, friday pretty chilled, sad. The huge long run sunday off. So you get back to monday feeling good again. So I guess we just structured your week that those big days, those easy days, which are just important as the big days, because on those easy days if you go too hard on that you're going to cook yourself for the next day.
Speaker 2:So structure your week in a way that you could handle running more volume consistently that you've ever done before. And and in doing that we built you up from 70 to 80 to 90 to 100 to up to 110Ks a week. That last week there. And you'd feel each week ready to rock for the next one, like I'd be worried if you weren't tired because you're running a lot. You should feel tired but you weren't injured and you're ready to attack the next week. So yeah, that's how we broke it down, like it would have been easy for me just to start throwing 110K run weeks out. Yeah, and just say here you go, mate, good luck, yeah, good luck. But the wheels could fall off pretty quickly and that would have stressed me, because that's on me then. So it was getting you to a point that you're running big volume, but safely and smartly. And, yeah, a big part of that was, I guess, building that up slowly and just intensity control yeah, and that's what I enjoyed when you said to me, like you've got to earn the right.
Speaker 1:I always say that to people that I coach in the gym and things like that.
Speaker 1:I hear wax, that man, I did not know that no, but it's great because I say to people but as soon as you said that, it sort of slapped me out of this like romanticized idea of just fucking crushing big runs or whatever world I was living in, and I was like that's probably true. And it also reminded me is exactly why I reached out to you, because, even though I understand programming for not marathons but like fitness, I was like I'll be able to do this myself and just been like okay, well, if I really want to do this properly, I need someone who one is going to call me on my shit. Two, if I, you know, get you like if we work together, I have to trust you. I can't just, like you know, do dodgies on the side and end up injured. It's like I've got to trust the process.
Speaker 1:And then, three, the approach around just building slowly for me was like okay, makes, like I understand that now that I've snapped out of this like fairyland place, um, and then obviously the results have come off the back of that and I think that's a really important people for this, uh, who are listening. Is the the purpose of getting a coach one? It just means you don't have to think about the programming, you just do the programming, which I love because I've got a lot of other things going on. Two, it's like you need to be told what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, all the time to get the best results. And the other thing that I've really enjoyed about working with you, dean, is that we talk pretty much every day, which is awesome. You'll be on my data or my Whoop or Strava or wherever the stuff's going.
Speaker 2:I pester the people I coach mate. I pester them.
Speaker 1:There was one that even Amy was like fuck, you're all in strife here. We just got off a plane in LA or something, and it was like 7 pm at night and you text me this was probably our second week working together and you're like mate, um, haven't done your run yet. And I was like one you, you, I'm tracking my time zones, bro, but I've just got off a plane and I was because you sent me that I got off the plane at 7 pm or 8 pm at night, like late as, and I went for a run and because it's where we were was not like ideal, I was just like running laps of this small block to get the run done.
Speaker 1:And for me, I was like, okay, this is perfect, because this is the accountability that I need, to make sure that I'm, you know, prepped because, the hard work's now, like really the runs are celebration and like obviously it's going to be fucking hard but like that's the celebration of what we're doing now.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, definitely, and I I was honestly never worried about you with ever doing a run. To be honest, I could tell pretty quickly you've got the same mindset as me that, like I've had coaches before and if that runs on that bit of paper, there is zero chance I'm missing it, zero chance. It would drive me so crazy to let someone down, and that is a good thing 95% of the times, but 5 percent it's not because I want to also want to know if you're feeling shit and I need to pull you back the next day. So if I ever saw you didn't have a run done, I'm not thinking locky's been lazy, not doing it, I'm thinking shit, is he sick or is he injured? So I would have been stressed. Did I push him too hard two days before any session? He can't run today and he's not telling me.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think that's more why because I know you think like me and even little things, like I would message you after every long run just to see how you're feeling. But I know you wouldn't tell me if you were smashed up and then I'd see on your Instagram stories that you say your ankles are sore and I'd be like these ankles hurt. So I had to get on there and just put some feelings out, like, mate, how are you feeling? No niggles, that's just me making sure that your body's in a good place. Yeah, because it's good to always want to get the work done. But, like I've made the mistake before, you don't just have to get done what's on paper. If you've got something, if you're not feeling good, you can pull things back for a few days because in the long run that's going to be what's good for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now my ankles have given me grief for about five years. Yeah, okay, as soon as I've done that, they're good. But if I'm, for whatever you know, running late on time for whatever reason and I'll just start running the first kilometer or two is not ideal, but then it settles in.
Speaker 2:it's good to go so, and that's probably one of the biggest challenges with marathon training, long distance endurance sports in general, because it's deciphering between being sore and being injured, because you know, in a marathon build, my legs never feel good, ever you should feel tired you know, people like coach freak out like, oh don't know if, if I can do this, I'm a bit tired and I'm like, well, you're tired or you're injured because you should feel tired, you're training for a marathon.
Speaker 2:But then you also need to know too where it's. It's tipped over that point and there's something that needs to be addressed. So it's always trying to get that fine line going and that's where it's important for an athlete and a coach to communicate. So you actually know.
Speaker 1:You know how that person's feeling and that's another thing I was broke down here to touch on is you've been really adamant on heart rates? Yeah, like I think, a lot of people myself included under utilized heart rate training. Yeah, because it does allow you to sort of accommodate for fatigue and things like that. So if I'm feeling cooked, um, I just still still sit in those zones, so my, my speed may drop off a little bit, but I'm still, I guess, essentially the same work ethic.
Speaker 2:If you're taking into account, though, the fatigue yeah, yeah, definitely heart rate, like it's just really useful for intensity control and it's really good for probably newer athletes. You're, you're at the point now where, like I'd be confident with you not to look at it as much, or like even for me, now I know I can just go out and run at five minute k pace and my heart rate's gonna be under 140. So I'm all good, look back on it after, but I don't really need to. But it's more intensity control because, like a new athlete, you might give them a run, an easy run, and their heart rate's 170 the whole time. They think they're going easy, but I've got proof that it wasn't. It was really hard and it's important in places like Brisbane, for example, because it's the worst place in the world to you know, 25 degree 99 humidity on on your runs of a morning, yeah, and you got to factor that in that. That just makes it harder. So if you, I'm just like, if it's, if it's 30 degrees, mate, just slow down. Who cares? Like no one, no one cares about your strava time, really, apart from you, like just back it off. Your heart rate might be 15 beats higher for the same pace as yesterday because it's 10 degrees hotter. So it's just a good way of controlling intensity and making sure someone is not overdoing it. And that's also a good data point for me to like look, I can look back through your training history and be like look at this, this run, this run, four weeks apart, exact same pace. Your heart rate's 15 beats lower. I've got clear data that you're absorbing the training well and getting a lot fitter. Um, so it's just a good metric to have the pros use heart rate.
Speaker 2:And then lactate's really big in the endurance space. Um, heart rate's just a lot more easy, I guess. To more practical, I'm not going to get you to rip out a lactate monitor and put drip blood on it like the pros do, but they they generally use a mixture between the two. Um and then rpe is obviously really important too. As I said to you, like, mate, if you're feeling tired, just back pace off. You know, on the days you're feeling good, you've got a license to pick it up a bit, but you just gotta be smart about that yep, yeah, there's, there's so much that goes into it.
Speaker 1:But once again, for people listening, like if you're considering whether you're doing your first marathon or half, or even if you're a more experienced runner like the benefit of having a coach for me and I, you know, I have coaches in business and in other areas of my life as well, so it just makes sense to have it in an important area, especially because the one thing I really love as well just not have to not having to think about it I literally open the app yeah, have a bit of a chin way to you and just do what it says, like just yeah, it's that easy and then I can focus my decision-making on other things in life as well, which is a game-changer.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure, mate. And it's even good for me as a coach to have a coach too, because I'm an over-thinker and I'll start thinking about I want to do more, and it's nice just to have someone stepping back from the outside not emotionally, you know, and be like mate, you know, not emotionally, you know, and be like mate, you know, that was something dumb to do, you know. Just do this and just, yeah, put trust in someone.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, agreed, mate, even the other thing I wanted to touch on was like fueling while you're running. We obviously you mentioned, and one of the other passes that you gave me was like a pizza. The night before the long run I've been smoking pizzas like left, right and centre. Are you freaked out when?
Speaker 2:I yeah, which is, trust me. You better eat good food as much as you can. But sometimes when you've got a 40k run the next day and you're going to burn 3 000 calories, it's going to be fucking hard to eat that with chicken and salad and feel good the next day. You just need to smash a pizza and I would argue from a health perspective you'd be far better off eating that pizza and creating your body a little bit of inflammation, but going into your run the next day with all those calories stored that you can use, as opposed to going in under-fuelled and killing yourself. So it's like and even if you're eating those bad meals, 95% of the time you're still eating the right things. But you know, sometimes you need to get that calorie-dense quick food. And generally that's around workouts too. You know. Before and after workouts, you know, know where your beats needs calories.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's nutrition is so important when it comes to endurance sports and just even like the gels and I know you've sort of said, for me it's like 60 grams of carbs an hour, if it's a bit hotter or you know a bit more intense session, up to 90 grams, yeah, um, and it's literally day and night since I've been doing that, like I've just bought, bought the gels that feel good for my guts but the difference in output and how I feel in it and that obviously then makes it easier mentally to to get the session done, whereas before I literally run multiple marathons with no nutrition before when you first told me that man, like I nearly fell off my chair.
Speaker 2:I was kind of happy in a way because I knew what a difference a simple thing will make. Is you just fueling your arms? I'm like that's going to make you know, Like how much percent difference would it be? Like you know, 20%, 30%, performance bump, just you know it sounds silly now that you're doing it, but Easy Dude, even shoes Like you're recommending me getting some shoes with carbon, carbon um yeah, whatever they're trainers. Do you feel that was the difference, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:oh, dude, way easy. You feel like I felt like I was running at 5, 45 pace like super slow, but then I'm sitting around 507 and you're like, okay, that's, I'm happy with that yeah, mate, the the biggest legend you'll love this the biggest legend in australian running, this bloke called steve monaghetti, yeah, so have you.
Speaker 2:Have you heard of brett robinson before? I have, yeah, so he's got a. The ultra man. Right, is he there? He's our. He's australia's best marathon runner, so he's okay. He's from melbourne. He's got the australian record for the marathon, which I believe is mid 20, 2007 minutes, so three, so three-minute kick pace. Yep, and that's these days with, you know, $470 Alpha Flies. He's sponsored by Nike, you know. Yeah, he's probably got a sponsorship for it. But the bloke's record, he beat Steve Monaghetti. He might be in his 60s now. Brett beat his record by 20 seconds or something and this bloke I think it was like 30 years ago ripped a 207 marathon pre-Super Shoes only had a sip of water on the course. What the hell? It's such a legend. Everyone looks at his time like surely that's like a 203 or something. Surely.
Speaker 2:At least Just no food, just ripped a glass of water. You know whatever shoes they were in back then 40 years ago and just ripped a glass of water. You know whatever shoes they were in back then 40 years ago and just ripped the 207.
Speaker 1:He's the man. Fuck, that is ridiculously fast yeah.
Speaker 2:So all these sort of evolvements in technology now make a huge difference. Like fueling is a big one, and then the shoe technology is so big. Now, like studies show, shoes can give you like five to seven seconds a k of free speed, depending on how fast you're going. Or even if you were to run at the same pace but you had a good pair of shoes on, you're working less hard to hold that same pace. You're burning less energy, so that's an advantage. And then it beats up your legs. When you've got a good pair of shoes on, your legs are more protected and it beats up your legs less. So it's not only a cheat code. The Kenyans can before say they could run 200K a week. Maybe now their bodies can handle running 250Ks a week because they've got these shoes that help them run more. And then that's an extra 5% as well. So, yeah, it's pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1:It's crazy and all of these things I wouldn't have been looking at had you not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's even common with people I coach Like they don't think about changing their shoes. You know, know, so often someone will get a niggle and I look at their training like they haven't progressed or done anything differently and I'll shoot a mess, say, hey, when was the last time you got a new pair of shoes? And I'll be like two years ago. And you're like, oh, they didn't, they wouldn't even think of that. And they get themselves a new pair of shoes that support that foot better and they feel right as ray again. So that's something like for you through this challenge, like you know, you're gonna have to definitely think about, especially now that you're running over 100k every week. But you burn through shoes quickly. Like you know, they're meant to last 500k. That's a new pair of shoes for every four weeks now, every four or five weeks.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's not fun, yeah, not funny sponsor though, as that asics super blast. Please give me them. Give me that's um, but what was I gonna say next? Yeah, what do you feel like based on, obviously, my programming and even just the conversations we've had? Are there any things that you feel I haven't considered well or probably should be looking at a bit more in the lead up to doing this challenge?
Speaker 2:So we're talking pre you actually doing the event.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the next step for you would be like we're going to have to increase it in volume a little bit more and see how you handle that. We'll get you up to 120 130 and maybe if we get to that it's too much, we have to pull you back. But we're gonna pick it up a bit. But I think we're gonna have to without you sort of knowing it. I wanted to get you in the mindset of introducing some doubles in your training. So if you're running in the morning like mate, can you get on the bike of an afternoon? Yeah, and that is just like. That's just an easy way to bank more aerobic stimulus and training without beating your body up. But now we're at the point it would actually be safer for me as a coach to see if you're open to doing a few double run days and although it's an extra run or two a week, you could argue it's safer.
Speaker 2:Maybe, for example, right now we're doing 110 Ks a week For me to increase your volume. We're not going to increase your long run any longer. You know volume. We're not going to increase your long run any longer. You know your last long run you ripped a marathon pretty much. I don't want to really increase your mid, medium long run from two hours because that's going to beat you up so much.
Speaker 2:So instead of making all your runs so long and they're getting really demanding on for you I could argue as a coach you might be better off doing 60 minutes of a morning and 30 minutes of an afternoon, and that 90 minutes broken up is going to be a lot less of a stress on your body from a physiological perspective, but you're building more k's in the legs. I think that will probably be the next step to see if you're open to, you know, add in one, maybe double run day a week and then build it up to two if your body can absorb that. So that'll probably be the next step, because even if we could just chuck an extra, you know two half an hour runs at the end of a training day, uh, that's, that's an extra 12k a week and it's, it's. You know, it's nothing really. So that will probably be our next thing we look at interesting.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to it you don't look, you don't look. Uh, pumped to get the door for a second run in the day, do you?
Speaker 2:no, but that it's, I'll do it, but it's just yeah, yeah well, it's either that or continuing to extend the runs you're doing now when you're already doing, you know pretty much a three. Last week you did three hour run, hour 45 run, an hour 15 run, trying to progress those a bit. You're doing like three big runs a week. You know it's a lot. It's a lot when, if you, if you even on your recovery day, if you done two. So if you went out for two 8k easy runs on your recovery day, that's it. That's a light day because neither of them are big things to do, but you'll bank 16k for that day, which is a lot of running. So something like that. We'll have a combo about it.
Speaker 1:Though yeah, I think I like the idea of doing doubles just because it's an inconvenience and I think I'm going to be sewing like there's going to be so many things that go wrong. I got a call from our motorhome company yesterday afternoon being like oh, just needed to confirm that you know that your shower's not going to work, your toilet's not going to work and the amenities of the motorhome aren't going to work because it's winter, everything will freeze over, you're in sub-zero and I was like nice that would have been. I should have thought of that. I didn't think about that, but that the whole reason why we got a motorhome was, yeah, so you could have a fucking motorhome, not have to get accommodations, and now I've got to get your caravan pass, booked and stuff. So there's going to be things like that that keep popping up. That inconvenience, the whole experience. I think that's going to be a good way to train, train for that as well how are you feeling about all the logistic and planning side of that?
Speaker 2:because we actually haven't even spoke about that. Right, we'd speak about your training and and probably in general, more life, yeah, life in general, me and you but because that stuff fascinates me too, like I think that is, that's such a big piece of the puzzle it's the most stressful part are you gonna have a physio on speed dial or, you know, help professional, because I think that would be could be good yes, so to come, I've got to get my heart checked, like I want to have my.
Speaker 1:I'm getting my bloods done. I'm getting my heart tested just to do a before and after. Yeah, and then kathleen, my sister-in-law she's a physio, so she does physio regularly, but then when we're over there, um, lskd and a few other people are helping me get get some people that will give me a tune up sort of every couple of days. I'm feeling like when my body's going to be that. I remember when I rode 30 marathons in a row my body was pretty tired that it didn't enjoy the heavy treatment. It was more like light rubs were beneficial. Yeah, so I'm trying to go in feeling good with that.
Speaker 1:But the most stressful part about the whole thing like you make the program it's super easy for me, which is awesome. Uh, we've been fortunate to get some great sponsors and now it's just the pr side of things and obviously deliverables that I've got for for those, and obviously we've now locked in the route. So you know, we had it locked in and then one of our flights got cancelled from hawaii, which meant we had to reroute the whole freaking thing within like a six hour period. So we got that done and then it's now just knowing that if anything goes wrong, like we miss a day or something, I'm either going to have to do a double to get back on track, because we've got 15 grand worth of flights booked that I can't obviously miss. So there's like a lot of pressure that I'm thinking about, because I've got people invested in it and I've put a heap of cash into it.
Speaker 1:But that is part of the journey I'm thinking about because I've got people invested in it and I've put a heap of cash into it. But that is part of the journey. I'm lucky, liam Excitement, my brother-in-law he's good at logistics and all of that, so he'll, you know, once he gets back from Melbourne, he'll take over all of that yeah cool.
Speaker 2:And food, like you don't want to rely on gas station, you know whatever they sell in market like are you gonna have you know what's your plan?
Speaker 1:not walmart, costco, so yeah, so I've uh got an idea of what we're gonna eat. I'll probably I should probably send that to you probably understand it better. But one thing that you've been on me about is eating, and prior to training with you, I was eating. Probably I wasn't tracking too much, but just based off what I knew I ate. I was was eating around 2,000 cals a day, so I definitely wasn't eating enough. Yeah, at the moment I'm doing about 3,700, which feels like I'm eating all day and I'm still trying to build that up a bit more.
Speaker 2:Have you lost weight, though, or you've managed to keep it on.
Speaker 1:I'm very skinny man, but I'm still sitting around 83 kilos.
Speaker 2:Which is still big for an endurance athlete that they lock, which is only important because, as a bigger body, your body produces more heat. It takes more calories to function. As you know, like myself, I'm 87 kilos because I'm so bloody tall, so you've got to actually take in a lot more food because you're so much bigger than the the standard, you know, 60 kilo marathon runner wouldn't it be good to be 60 kilos and run a marathon?
Speaker 1:it'd feel nice, wouldn't it? But I'm just like.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, I want to be, I want to be able to rip a marathon, but also, you know, hopefully bench press, more than me, misses. Still, you know it'd be good to get that fine line, which I probably don't. I hope she doesn't listen to this.
Speaker 1:I could be in trouble yeah, I'm sure she will listen to that for sure. Um, but no, food wise, yeah, we'll have that sorted. And and the crew's going to be making sure that while I'm running they're doing costco trips because, depending on the size of the van, like the vans are decent size, but we'll we're going up to seattle three days earlier so we can make sure it's all set up and ready to rumble. Um so, and then I've got, uh, you know, saps.
Speaker 2:I've got like leg sleeves, whether they work or not, like that would just be good to flush the legs after each run yeah, I wonder if you get yourself a pair of norma texter, just to kick the feet up, I got them, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, because even like how much does it help? I don't know the answer, but even if mentally you're telling yourself it helps, that can be a benefit. Or even, like, I love them because it just forces me to sit down on my ass for an hour and eat food. Even that might be the benefit of it.
Speaker 1:That's literally. What I do is like I'll when I'm having dinner or whatever I'll just whack them on and slowly rip through some food so yeah, I think exciting that, yeah, it's all, it's all all come together. So now, yeah, just injury free until yeah, till we uh head off in four or five weeks and then I'm in mexico and then kick it off yeah, very good, yeah, it'll be an adjustment as well. Getting back into that cold weather, coming from here I think it's.
Speaker 2:I personally feel it's going to be nicer running in the cold oh, mate, you're doing a lot of your train block in brisbane, like for people listening out there that haven't been in brisbane before, it's got to be the worst place to be a runner, like. You know like how sad it is when you've got a long run on a Sunday. You check the weather out. You're like it's going to be 26 by 6 am. So then you're like, what's the weather at 4? It might be 23, but it's 99% humidity. It's like, oh, this is grim.
Speaker 1:This is grim. I started at 4.30 last week and I was cooking Like yeah. It's not good, it's not ideal.
Speaker 2:But then, like, yeah, once you get to a cooler climate, you know, having all that, both mentally and physically, will be a huge asset. Like you know, ideal marathon conditions they say it's three to eight degrees. So you know, my next marathon in Ballarat can get to eight degrees in April, which would be perfect. But the benefit would be me. I'll be training through a Queensland summer, you know, and then cruise on down to Melbourne for an eight-degree race, and then that should feel, you know, a huge difference, a huge difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're aiming for a sub 2.45, then 2.45?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 2.45 would be good, that'd be about 3.55. Do you think like I? When I ran my 2, my 250, I was in good nick. But like this year, before I got injured, I put in so much better training, I was so much fitter.
Speaker 2:And marathon is just a cruel game because you've got to have things fall in place. You've got to feel good, not get injured, have good weather on the day, not be sick. I DNF'd at Noosa this year too. I woke up the morning of the race sick as a dog. I'm just like, oh. And then I'm just like you're just gonna tell no one that you're sick. You're gonna just get on that start line and see what happens um 25k and seeing stars losing me legs. The wheels just fell off and ended up in the medic.
Speaker 2:That was this year. So I went, I hit a dnf and then got injured before before goldie. So you've got to be lucky and you know, have things go your way and be healthy, and that's all a part of it. When you're pushing the limit too, you know like you're going to get sick and you're going to pick up little niggles. There's just no way around it. It's just doing your best to train smartly that you minimise that stuff and be smart when it happens, so you can get on top of it really quickly and not just ignore it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% For people who are looking for coaching. They can all. Obviously, for everyone listening in the show notes, I'll link your Instagram and whatnot and people can reach out to you there. But what does it look like? I guess the process with working with you, because I know you always have like you only work with X amount of people at a time, but if people are wanting some coaching, what does that look like?
Speaker 2:Mate. Yeah, so definitely looking for more athletes. Coaching is my passion. I love it. I'm both a nutritionist and a run coach, which is the double winner. The running boom is so big now. What's that, mate?
Speaker 1:I said, it's one of the best things about you as well, as you're a nutritionist as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, which is good, and I thought it would always be more nutrition.
Speaker 2:But because of the running burn how big running is at the moment it's just fallen in my lap that I've got a lot more run clients than nutrition, but they do go hand in hand too, so you kind of get the best of both worlds on that. But yeah, if anyone wants a run coach like I've got blokes, I coach boys and girls. I've got, you know, a female athlete I coach trying to get better. You know running for a high rocks event. She wants to turn pro on that. I've got this bloody bloke running 58 marathons in 58 days across the world. You know I've got a nice kid I'm coaching that wants to run a 20-minute 5K. He's fun to coach.
Speaker 2:Like, honestly, people from all walks of life like and I find coaching someone to achieve a goal way more satisfying than me doing it myself like there's nothing better than um, being at the finish line to a marathon, wherever it is, and seeing someone do what they thought they could never do and like that moment for me is like why I coach and, well, hopefully, do it for the next 20 years. So, yeah, if you ever to coach, it doesn't matter how big or small. It's never a one-size-fits-all policy, right, like it's your. The way I'd program for you, which is through an app in Training Peaks, is real specific to what your goals are. You know there might be if you're someone that's trying to run a sub-three-hour marathon, I'm going to coach and treat them very differently to someone that wants to complete a marathon. You know what's their work stress like have they got kids? You know there's so many factors that go into the way I'd program for someone. So, yeah, mate, get in touch. I'll drop you my website.
Speaker 2:My official business is launching. It's called Rise Coaching. Yeah, which is good. Yeah, uh, I've been coaching for a while now, but I need the missus to give me a kick up the ass to finally, you know, get put all the pieces together which I'm not, which I'm not good at. I don't like talking about myself or taking photos of myself or promoting myself. Yeah, yeah, the website. We'll put it up so everyone can see that. Yeah, if anyone wants any coaching, reach out and we can have a bit of a deeper conversation as to what their goals are. Big or small, it doesn't matter. Um, and yeah, I just love helping people, mate it's awesome man.
Speaker 1:You're definitely the man for the for the job, like dean wicks everyone and dean I've worked with a number of coaches over the years, from crossfit to rugby to um, even just for 5k and when I did the obstacle course racing and your hands down, the most professional person I've worked with. Like when I say professional, you deliver with great programming all around, fucking good bloke. You check in regularly for the accountability and you give me the kick up the ass that I need. But then it's just, it's also enjoyable, which for me, is like this perfect storm that allows me to want to keep doing it, because I think, if any of those are off, for me it's like oh, maybe I need more accountability, or maybe I need a bit more fun, or maybe I need to kick up the ass, and you've delivered on that. You know above and beyond. So for me it's just, honestly, the best investment, and I also just enjoy talking shit with you as well. It's good fun.
Speaker 2:Thank you, mate, can shit with you as well. It's good fun. Thank you, mate, I appreciate that and yeah, I think that's probably my biggest strength as a coach. Like you know, you can get coaches that are very high level, elite athletes, but it doesn't mean they're the best coach, because they don't understand what it's like as much for a person to. You know work nine hour days, have kids. You know blokes are coach. They got a wedding on the weekend.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to change their scheduling so they can get their long run done on a Saturday morning so they can have a beer for their mate's wedding and kick their feet up on the Sunday. Like you need to, because I'm a normal person myself. You need to sort of be able to see both sides of like the elite outcomes and progressing as an athlete, but also just be a normal person and a good bloke and realise that. You know you've got to be flexible with people and get it to fit in with their lifestyle, because if they don't enjoy doing it and they're not going to stick at it for weeks, months and years, then they're never going to achieve the goals that they could. So you've got to find that balance between pushing them, but also, you know, making sure they enjoy the process along the way, because if they don't enjoy it, then you know what's the point in even doing this.
Speaker 1:Exactly right, dean. Thanks so much for your time, mate, and for everyone listening. If you got value from this episode, make sure you share it on your socials, leave a rating and review and, as always, do something today to be better for tomorrow and go check out Wixie. Thanks for having me, mate.
